AF422 Emergency Landing Azores
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In regards to the cabin crew, remember this is a French airline we're talking about. Following the rules and common sense aren't really their forte.
With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work!
With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work!
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Togalk,
Pardon my french, but this is one dumb comment.
Does Toronto ring any bell ?
Who exactly are you to stigmatize french cabin crew, or any other nationality for that matter ?
And you dare talking about common sense !
Pardon my french, but this is one dumb comment.
Does Toronto ring any bell ?
Who exactly are you to stigmatize french cabin crew, or any other nationality for that matter ?
And you dare talking about common sense !
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'In regards to the cabin crew, remember this is a French airline we're talking about. Following the rules and common sense aren't really their forte.
With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work'
Tooland pompous fart
With respect to what the pilots did, it sounds like they did everything correctly. Fire indication with no way of confirming whether it's false or not, get the aircaft on the ground ASAP. Which is exactly what they did. No damage and no injuries. Good work'
Tooland pompous fart
Last edited by tomkins; 6th Mar 2012 at 22:37.
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911slf
More seriously, this is where language skills count. Can't cover all bases but surely one flight attendant should be available to speak the languages expected to be used by most of the passengers?
Unfortunately language skills count for dick now .Cost cutting you know.Even if there had been a spannish speaker on board,those Russian ,Chineese etc,who don,t speak french,spanish,or english would have panicked.Not a fault of the cabin crew.
Why are you picking on the cabincrew,as far as we know all they did was sweat and shout,things that you would expect them to be doing in this kind of situation.............and I bet they had a far more stressfull time than the flight crew who would be in the cockpit dealing with the situation without 300 odd crazed passengers to deal with.
Think it through a bit
More seriously, this is where language skills count. Can't cover all bases but surely one flight attendant should be available to speak the languages expected to be used by most of the passengers?
Unfortunately language skills count for dick now .Cost cutting you know.Even if there had been a spannish speaker on board,those Russian ,Chineese etc,who don,t speak french,spanish,or english would have panicked.Not a fault of the cabin crew.
Why are you picking on the cabincrew,as far as we know all they did was sweat and shout,things that you would expect them to be doing in this kind of situation.............and I bet they had a far more stressfull time than the flight crew who would be in the cockpit dealing with the situation without 300 odd crazed passengers to deal with.
Think it through a bit
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What is NOT being discussed is, if there were indications of smoke before and during take-off, why is an Atlantic flight not going back for repairs, especially as there was an issue before departure? The issue of F/A & Cockpit Crew seems small by comparison...
"After the incident passengers raised concerns about the flight taking off in the first place, after it had been delayed due to unspecified technical problems at Charles de Gaulle airport.
After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off. Two hours into the flight the plane rapidly diverted, turning back to the nearest landing point available."
"After the incident passengers raised concerns about the flight taking off in the first place, after it had been delayed due to unspecified technical problems at Charles de Gaulle airport.
After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off. Two hours into the flight the plane rapidly diverted, turning back to the nearest landing point available."
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I cannot believe that an Air France trans atalantic flight did not have a crew member on board who would not have been able to make a PA in either English or Spanish; the flightdeck crew are supposedly level 4.
An emergency, yes - deal with it is the priority but once dealt with a 30 sec PA would not be beyond the realms of possiblity.
Poor CRM - and I'm emphasising the Crew Management bit - and that comes from the guy in the LHS.
An emergency, yes - deal with it is the priority but once dealt with a 30 sec PA would not be beyond the realms of possiblity.
Poor CRM - and I'm emphasising the Crew Management bit - and that comes from the guy in the LHS.
After a delay of 34 minutes the flight, AF422, took off from Charles de Gaulle at 11.24am with the smell of burning already apparent upon take off.
I tend to ignore self serving facts that have not been validated by an investigating agency.
Too much second guessing and judgements on the crews actions without the facts apparant that they were working under.
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Colombia was where I first came across passengers clapping when the aircraft landed. That probably says something about how they might react in an emergency.
Last edited by patowalker; 7th Mar 2012 at 12:45.
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Link with local Portuguese news
Link with video of local Portuguese news
Comments from a Spanish-speaking passenger
Duas aterragens de emergęncias hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores
Comments from a Spanish-speaking passenger
Duas aterragens de emergęncias hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores
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Looking at the translation it appears there was visible smoke in the cabin. The descent of the aircraft, dumping of fuel and lack of proper communication to passengers must have ignited panic. With passenger phone video becoming more available soon maybe we will get a proper feel for what happened.
Duas aterragens de emergęncias hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores
The BBC has carried the following with a telephone interview with a very plausible passenger.
BBC News - 'Crying and screaming' as Air France plane loses height
Air France are in damage limitation mode here with the Lat Am media trying to play down what was a poorly handled incident aft of the flight deck.
Duas aterragens de emergęncias hoje no Aeroporto das Lajes (atualizado c/vídeo) - Notícias - RTP Açores
There was however also today another emergency alert with fire on board. flight AFR442, A343, Orly to Bogota, said emergency fire alarm in the crew rest area (in 42N0 39W) with emergency landed at Lajes. There was very visible smoke in the cabin when he landed. The cause of the fire has not yet been cleared and may have been treated some kind of slow combustion. A combustion may have started in the luggage room. (Antena1 Azores) News video: Nuno Neves, TV News
Passengers on an Air France plane forced to make an emergency landing have spoken of people ''crying and screaming'' as they feared it would crash.
The AF422 flight from Paris to the Colombian capital, Bogota, made a sudden descent and had to land on the island of Terceira in the Azores on Monday.
Passenger Eden Victoria Erlandsson said there was panic amongst both passengers and cabin crew.
The AF422 flight from Paris to the Colombian capital, Bogota, made a sudden descent and had to land on the island of Terceira in the Azores on Monday.
Passenger Eden Victoria Erlandsson said there was panic amongst both passengers and cabin crew.
Air France are in damage limitation mode here with the Lat Am media trying to play down what was a poorly handled incident aft of the flight deck.
Last edited by Ye Olde Pilot; 7th Mar 2012 at 11:52.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
Am I missing something? I can't see any mention of a lack of language skills. It seems to have crept into the thread, and done a "Topsy" (just growed)
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Air France has a different take on the story.
The airline said the flight had a technical problem after a smoke alarm sounded in the cabin crew rest area.
A statement read: “The cabin crew put on the breathing protection masks to inspect the rest area and no smoke was detected.”
It added that the captain decided to divert to the nearest airport as a “precautionary measure” because the alarm had sounded.
The plane dumped fuel in order to land without the jet being overweight - a standard procedure, it added.
Air France denies reports of panic on board and says that passengers did not leave the aircraft on emergency slides.
“The crew informed the passengers in French, English and Spanish, of the reasons for the diversion.
“The crew reported no injuries, illness or panic among the passengers, who left the aircraft normally using both of the airport’s jetways.”
Following an investigation by the airport fire department on the ground, “no trace of smoke or any other irregularity was found on the aircraft,” the statement added.
The 274 passengers on board were put up in overnight accommodation and continued their journeys on Tuesday afternoon (local time) on another Air France A340 jet.
A statement read: “The cabin crew put on the breathing protection masks to inspect the rest area and no smoke was detected.”
It added that the captain decided to divert to the nearest airport as a “precautionary measure” because the alarm had sounded.
The plane dumped fuel in order to land without the jet being overweight - a standard procedure, it added.
Air France denies reports of panic on board and says that passengers did not leave the aircraft on emergency slides.
“The crew informed the passengers in French, English and Spanish, of the reasons for the diversion.
“The crew reported no injuries, illness or panic among the passengers, who left the aircraft normally using both of the airport’s jetways.”
Following an investigation by the airport fire department on the ground, “no trace of smoke or any other irregularity was found on the aircraft,” the statement added.
The 274 passengers on board were put up in overnight accommodation and continued their journeys on Tuesday afternoon (local time) on another Air France A340 jet.
Am I missing something? I can't see any mention of a lack of language skills. It seems to have crept into the thread, and done a "Topsy" (just growed)
The passenger who is interviewed states (my interpretation for those too lazy to watch the video): "There was no information. The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".
So language skills DO seem to be an issue.
- GY
By that you're referring to some of the passengers not being able to speak any French, right?
The International Civil Aviation Organisation has decreed that from 1 January 2008 all Air Traffic Controllers and Flight Crew Members engaged in or in contact with international flights must be proficient in the English language as a general spoken medium and not simply have a proficiency in standard ICAO Radio Telephony Phraseology.
- GY
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It's my assumption that this does NOT extend to the flight attendants....?
Personally, when I travel to any country where English (or German, or Italian) is not spoken as an official language, I do not expect anybody to be able to speak English (or German, or Italian) just because it would please me if they did. I wouldn't also claim that "no information was given" just because I am not able to understand the language the information was actually given in. That would be a bit too egocentric even for someone as myself.
Cheers,
DG800
And you would be absolutely correct in that assumption. There is no requirement, AFAIK, for flight attendants to attain any ICAO proficiency level whatsoever, as they are obviously not part of the flight crew and could just speak an obscure Chinese dialect as far as ICAO is concerned. I'm sure that is actually the case for many f/a in mainland China.
Personally, when I travel to any country where English (or German, or Italian) is not spoken as an official language, I do not expect anybody to be able to speak English (or German, or Italian) just because it would please me if they did. I wouldn't also claim that "no information was given" just because I am not able to understand the language the information was actually given in. That would be a bit too egocentric even for someone as myself.
Personally, when I travel to any country where English (or German, or Italian) is not spoken as an official language, I do not expect anybody to be able to speak English (or German, or Italian) just because it would please me if they did. I wouldn't also claim that "no information was given" just because I am not able to understand the language the information was actually given in. That would be a bit too egocentric even for someone as myself.
"There was no information. The cabin crew didn't speak English. They said they are a French Airline and only speak French".