AF422 Emergency Landing Azores
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I realise French-bashing is a beloved sport of many Anglophones (yes, the very same people known world wide for their foreign language profiency).
Still and all, some people here might be interested in the facts.
Entrance requirement for AF cabin crew is level 3 English.
Promotion requirement for Chef de Cabine (2 on this flight) and Chef de Cabine Principal (1 on this flight) is level 5 English.
In other words, the person making the cabin PAs, the CCP, spoke English fluently.
Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly itīs the gospel?
Still and all, some people here might be interested in the facts.
Entrance requirement for AF cabin crew is level 3 English.
Promotion requirement for Chef de Cabine (2 on this flight) and Chef de Cabine Principal (1 on this flight) is level 5 English.
In other words, the person making the cabin PAs, the CCP, spoke English fluently.
Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly itīs the gospel?
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SLFguy:
Reminds me of one of my favorite dog cartoons;
Picture: A confused and -very- hurt feeling looking dog standing next to a fresh steaming pile with an angry owner yelling.
Caption: "I said SIT"
I said "clapping"
Picture: A confused and -very- hurt feeling looking dog standing next to a fresh steaming pile with an angry owner yelling.
Caption: "I said SIT"
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Something else too; when journalists report on cockpit matters, most ppruners see right through their sensationalist cr@p.
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly itīs the gospel?
When journalists report on cabin matters, suddenly itīs the gospel?
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It sucks when facts get in the way of a good story, but there you go.
I am a Cabin Chief at AF (English Language level 5, but if you prefer I can stutter and write a parbleu! here and there for your enjoyment) .
As Juud said, you must have a minimum level 3 requirement to enter the company, in short: be able to speak, read, write and hold a conversation. A high percentage of our passengers are not French nationals nor French speakers. How do you think we interact with them and all the people we meet around the world, with sign language? How do you think we read the announcements that must be read in both French and English (that's the law)? Do you think we use Google Translate?
That anyone in the crew was not able to speak English is such a ridiculous statement that it qualifies even the rest of the "story" as "fantasies" of a couple of drama queens in need of their 15 minutes.
It says less about these people than about those more than eager to buy it...just watch how happily all the posts speaking of facts are being ignored (like the statements by passenger A.Colombo telling an entirely different story).
Anyway, for those interested by the boring facts, here is the AF press announcement to AFP...in French, naturally. For all you people here ready to point fingers at AF for allegedly not speaking English. You are of course all fluent in French, n'est-ce pas?
I am a Cabin Chief at AF (English Language level 5, but if you prefer I can stutter and write a parbleu! here and there for your enjoyment) .
As Juud said, you must have a minimum level 3 requirement to enter the company, in short: be able to speak, read, write and hold a conversation. A high percentage of our passengers are not French nationals nor French speakers. How do you think we interact with them and all the people we meet around the world, with sign language? How do you think we read the announcements that must be read in both French and English (that's the law)? Do you think we use Google Translate?
That anyone in the crew was not able to speak English is such a ridiculous statement that it qualifies even the rest of the "story" as "fantasies" of a couple of drama queens in need of their 15 minutes.
It says less about these people than about those more than eager to buy it...just watch how happily all the posts speaking of facts are being ignored (like the statements by passenger A.Colombo telling an entirely different story).
Anyway, for those interested by the boring facts, here is the AF press announcement to AFP...in French, naturally. For all you people here ready to point fingers at AF for allegedly not speaking English. You are of course all fluent in French, n'est-ce pas?
Air France réfute "des scčnes de panique" dans un de ses avions dérouté - Lead Général
PARIS, 6 mars 2012 (AFP) - La compagnie Air France a catégoriquement réfuté mardi des propos rapportés par deux passagers d'un vol Paris-Bogota dérouté lundi vers les Aįores, largement relayés sur twitter, faisant état de scčnes de panique ā bord de l'appareil et d'une désorganisation de l'équipage.
Un Airbus A340, qui devait relier Paris-Bogota avec 274 passagers ā bord, dont une cinquantaine de Colombiens, a dû se poser lundi ā Terceira par sécurité, aprčs qu'une alarme incendie a retenti dans le "poste repos" des navigants pour une raison indéterminée.
Morten Aamot, un passager norvégien de 24 ans, a affirmé que de la fumée était visible ā l'intérieur de l'appareil. "Un membre du personnel courait avec un extincteur dans les mains. Il a couru vers les toilettes d'oų la fumée venait. Ce n'est pas quelque chose qu'on a envie de voir quand on se trouve dans un avion", a-t-il déclaré au site internet de la chaîne norvégienne TV2.
"Il n'y a jamais eu la moindre émanation de fumée dans la cabine, cette information est totalement fausse", a déclaré ā l'AFP Eric Prévot, porte-parole de la Direction générale des opérations aériennes de la compagnie franįaise.
M. Prévot a expliqué que, conformément aux procédures de sécurité, l'équipage avait ouvert le poste de repos oų l'alarme avait retenti.
"Ils ont procédé ā une inspection complčte et ont constaté qu'il n'y avait pas la moindre fumée ou de traces de début d'incendie. Ils en ont rendu compte au commandant qui a poursuivi le déroutement par mesure de sécurité", l'origine du déclenchement de l'alarme incendie étant indéterminé, a-t-il expliqué.
Le porte-parole a souligné que, "toujours conformément aux procédures", les navigants ayant réalisé l'inspection étaient munis d'une cagoule avec de l'oxygčne, pour éviter d'ętre intoxiqués en cas d'émanation de fumée, "et d'un extincteur pour ętre pręts ā intervenir".
"Des passagers situés prčs du poste repos ont donc vu les personnels intervenir et ils ont pu s'en inquiéter. Les navigants ont agi rapidement mais avec calme", a insisté M. Prévot, par ailleurs commandant de bord sur Boeing B777.
"Il y avait la panique ā bord", a néanmoins affirmé un passager suédois, Eden Victoria Erlandsson, 26 ans, dont le témoignage a été publié par plusieurs médias, dont le site du tabloïd suédois Expressen.
"L'équipage était en sueur et criait. Les passagers priaient et pleuraient. La panique était totale", a-t-il ajouté, en se plaignant de ne pas avoir eu de version anglaise des informations communiquées aux passagers, diffusées, selon lui, en espagnol et franįais.
Air France a affirmé de son côté que les scčnes de panique décrites par ce passager "sont en décalage absolu avec la réalité des faits", sans minimiser l'inquiétude qui a pu ętre ressentie.
M. Prévot a en outre assuré que les informations ont été diffusées en trois langues (anglais, franįais et espagnol), pour annoncer le déroutement pour des raisons techniques et rassurer les passagers sur les procédures en cours.
L'équipage a notamment informé que la procédure de sécurité prévoyait de vidanger du carburant avant l'atterrissage.
"Aprčs en avoir informé la tour de contrôle, l'équipage a expliqué aux passagers qu'il était normal que les passagers situés prčs des ailes voient du carburant s'échapper de l'avion", a indiqué le porte-parole.
L'avion s'est ensuite posé normalement. Selon M. Prévot, l'équipage a ensuite réuni les passagers pour expliquer ce qui s'était passé.
Les passagers ont finalement redécollé mardi ā 15H38 GMT. Leur arrivée était prévue ā 23H43 GMT.
PARIS, 6 mars 2012 (AFP) - La compagnie Air France a catégoriquement réfuté mardi des propos rapportés par deux passagers d'un vol Paris-Bogota dérouté lundi vers les Aįores, largement relayés sur twitter, faisant état de scčnes de panique ā bord de l'appareil et d'une désorganisation de l'équipage.
Un Airbus A340, qui devait relier Paris-Bogota avec 274 passagers ā bord, dont une cinquantaine de Colombiens, a dû se poser lundi ā Terceira par sécurité, aprčs qu'une alarme incendie a retenti dans le "poste repos" des navigants pour une raison indéterminée.
Morten Aamot, un passager norvégien de 24 ans, a affirmé que de la fumée était visible ā l'intérieur de l'appareil. "Un membre du personnel courait avec un extincteur dans les mains. Il a couru vers les toilettes d'oų la fumée venait. Ce n'est pas quelque chose qu'on a envie de voir quand on se trouve dans un avion", a-t-il déclaré au site internet de la chaîne norvégienne TV2.
"Il n'y a jamais eu la moindre émanation de fumée dans la cabine, cette information est totalement fausse", a déclaré ā l'AFP Eric Prévot, porte-parole de la Direction générale des opérations aériennes de la compagnie franįaise.
M. Prévot a expliqué que, conformément aux procédures de sécurité, l'équipage avait ouvert le poste de repos oų l'alarme avait retenti.
"Ils ont procédé ā une inspection complčte et ont constaté qu'il n'y avait pas la moindre fumée ou de traces de début d'incendie. Ils en ont rendu compte au commandant qui a poursuivi le déroutement par mesure de sécurité", l'origine du déclenchement de l'alarme incendie étant indéterminé, a-t-il expliqué.
Le porte-parole a souligné que, "toujours conformément aux procédures", les navigants ayant réalisé l'inspection étaient munis d'une cagoule avec de l'oxygčne, pour éviter d'ętre intoxiqués en cas d'émanation de fumée, "et d'un extincteur pour ętre pręts ā intervenir".
"Des passagers situés prčs du poste repos ont donc vu les personnels intervenir et ils ont pu s'en inquiéter. Les navigants ont agi rapidement mais avec calme", a insisté M. Prévot, par ailleurs commandant de bord sur Boeing B777.
"Il y avait la panique ā bord", a néanmoins affirmé un passager suédois, Eden Victoria Erlandsson, 26 ans, dont le témoignage a été publié par plusieurs médias, dont le site du tabloïd suédois Expressen.
"L'équipage était en sueur et criait. Les passagers priaient et pleuraient. La panique était totale", a-t-il ajouté, en se plaignant de ne pas avoir eu de version anglaise des informations communiquées aux passagers, diffusées, selon lui, en espagnol et franįais.
Air France a affirmé de son côté que les scčnes de panique décrites par ce passager "sont en décalage absolu avec la réalité des faits", sans minimiser l'inquiétude qui a pu ętre ressentie.
M. Prévot a en outre assuré que les informations ont été diffusées en trois langues (anglais, franįais et espagnol), pour annoncer le déroutement pour des raisons techniques et rassurer les passagers sur les procédures en cours.
L'équipage a notamment informé que la procédure de sécurité prévoyait de vidanger du carburant avant l'atterrissage.
"Aprčs en avoir informé la tour de contrôle, l'équipage a expliqué aux passagers qu'il était normal que les passagers situés prčs des ailes voient du carburant s'échapper de l'avion", a indiqué le porte-parole.
L'avion s'est ensuite posé normalement. Selon M. Prévot, l'équipage a ensuite réuni les passagers pour expliquer ce qui s'était passé.
Les passagers ont finalement redécollé mardi ā 15H38 GMT. Leur arrivée était prévue ā 23H43 GMT.
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I'm surprised to read that the passengers reporting panic were Norwegian and Swedish. I thought they were Ecuadorians, which of course prompted me to laugh it off... But those nordic people, they're not the kind of people traditionally associated with emotional outbursts, at least not the ones (few) I know.
In my book at least, this press release adds question marks rather than clarifies.
Doc
In my book at least, this press release adds question marks rather than clarifies.
Doc
Well said juud and captcat!
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passengers clapping after a landing? probably expressing relief to be down at last after being stuck in the hold over Bovingdon going around and around for 40 minutes...
I still remember leaving Moscow airport in 1987 in a British Airways plane; everybody was so happy and relieved to be departing the Soviet Union they all applauded on takeoff.....
I still remember leaving Moscow airport in 1987 in a British Airways plane; everybody was so happy and relieved to be departing the Soviet Union they all applauded on takeoff.....
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In my book at least, this press release adds question marks rather than clarifies
here is the AF press announcement to AFP...in French, naturally.
As for the clapping on landing, I think it is an insult to pilots,
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Language problems? Sacre bleu!
I know it's thread drift, but it must be shared - the problems that a French Catalina encountered, visiting the Fermanagh Seaplane Festival in Northern Ireland, as reported in the March 2012 issue of the AAIB Bulletin, page 9.
Another visiting Catalina, flown by a British crew, flew across to the festival areas, and self-moored as expected although conditions on the water were demanding, because of the prevailing wind.
When the French Catalina , which was accustomed to shutting down and being towed to its mooring buoy, landed on the water, it "shut down, to await the tug crews.....The French ground crewman spoke limited English, and the Chief Marshall could not speak French. Communications between the French ground crewman and the aircraft crew were predominantly in French. Eventually a line was attached, but as they tried to take the Catalina under tow, the line fell into the water and became tangled in the boat's propellor. The ground crewman then tried to prevent the boat from becoming separated from the Catalina, and ended up falling into the water. Another marshall boat arrived...but its propellor also became tangled in the line...so the Catalina contined to drift backwards into a moored yacht, damaging its right elevator."
I know it's thread drift, but it must be shared - the problems that a French Catalina encountered, visiting the Fermanagh Seaplane Festival in Northern Ireland, as reported in the March 2012 issue of the AAIB Bulletin, page 9.
Another visiting Catalina, flown by a British crew, flew across to the festival areas, and self-moored as expected although conditions on the water were demanding, because of the prevailing wind.
When the French Catalina , which was accustomed to shutting down and being towed to its mooring buoy, landed on the water, it "shut down, to await the tug crews.....The French ground crewman spoke limited English, and the Chief Marshall could not speak French. Communications between the French ground crewman and the aircraft crew were predominantly in French. Eventually a line was attached, but as they tried to take the Catalina under tow, the line fell into the water and became tangled in the boat's propellor. The ground crewman then tried to prevent the boat from becoming separated from the Catalina, and ended up falling into the water. Another marshall boat arrived...but its propellor also became tangled in the line...so the Catalina contined to drift backwards into a moored yacht, damaging its right elevator."
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A german journalist, who was by chance on AF 422, wrote of his and his fellow travellers astonishment about the sensationalist reporting. According to him, there was no smoke, no panic, cabin crew professional & and orderly exit on stairs. No drama.
Source: Panorama: Pressedrama über dem Atlantik - badische-zeitung.de
Source: Panorama: Pressedrama über dem Atlantik - badische-zeitung.de
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Article mentions that the F/A's talked with a couple of anxious passengers but the majority remained calm. Passengers understood that is was a typical response to an unusual situation even if it turned out to be a flase alarm.
Makes several references to the fact that no one smelled smoke even after the alarm went off.
Makes several references to the fact that no one smelled smoke even after the alarm went off.
wozzo - exactly what I would expect. Why can't people stop frog bashing. Just because some things are different doesn't mean they are wrong.
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GYS, it helps if you read the thread. English press release quoted in full post #46.
The article linked to by wozzo was written by a German who was on board the aircraft. It also quotes a Norwegian and a Brit who were.
They decry the blatantly untrue and completely ludicrous coverage from the BBC, The Guardian, Expressen and TV2.
As the Norwegian says: "I tried to tell the journalist what has happened, but I could hardly get a word in edgeways. She wasnīt interested in hearing the true chain of events at all."
He tells about 2 Brit pax in the lobby of the AF paid hotel. Who laugh about the Guardianīs fantasy-smoke story. The BBC has interviewed the Swedish woman mis-quoted by Expressen. On live, she says: "I didnīt smell any smoke. I just heard that others had maybe smelt some."
From the article:
Journalistic sensationalism swallowed uncritically combined with eagely expressed prejudice against the French characterises many posts on this thread.
Now that the truth is filtering out, it rather looks as if AF pilots executed a textbook precautionary landing, AF cabin crew did their checks by the book, made their PAs in three languages & took care of pax anxiety in an exemplary fashion.
After which AF put the pax up in a hotel at the companyīs expense, and flew them to their destination the next day.
Bløødy incompetent lot, those French.
The article linked to by wozzo was written by a German who was on board the aircraft. It also quotes a Norwegian and a Brit who were.
They decry the blatantly untrue and completely ludicrous coverage from the BBC, The Guardian, Expressen and TV2.
As the Norwegian says: "I tried to tell the journalist what has happened, but I could hardly get a word in edgeways. She wasnīt interested in hearing the true chain of events at all."
He tells about 2 Brit pax in the lobby of the AF paid hotel. Who laugh about the Guardianīs fantasy-smoke story. The BBC has interviewed the Swedish woman mis-quoted by Expressen. On live, she says: "I didnīt smell any smoke. I just heard that others had maybe smelt some."
From the article:
It didnīt smell of smoke after take-off, just a bit of mushroom risotto.
The approach lasted about half an hour; a stewardess walked through the aisle, smiling and calming down a few passengers. But most pax didnīt need any calming down at all. They were watching the seat-backs in front of them. Thatīs where the tv screens are, thatīs where they watch "Harry Potter", "Indiana Jones", "Big Sharks - small fish".
Regularly interrupted by announcements from the crew; in French, English and Spanish.
The approach lasted about half an hour; a stewardess walked through the aisle, smiling and calming down a few passengers. But most pax didnīt need any calming down at all. They were watching the seat-backs in front of them. Thatīs where the tv screens are, thatīs where they watch "Harry Potter", "Indiana Jones", "Big Sharks - small fish".
Regularly interrupted by announcements from the crew; in French, English and Spanish.
Now that the truth is filtering out, it rather looks as if AF pilots executed a textbook precautionary landing, AF cabin crew did their checks by the book, made their PAs in three languages & took care of pax anxiety in an exemplary fashion.
After which AF put the pax up in a hotel at the companyīs expense, and flew them to their destination the next day.
Bløødy incompetent lot, those French.
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About language ability, I do not know the level of proficiency of the cabin crew, and it is a French Airline so despite views of English as a global language, I rather think EXPECTING the cabin crew to have good English is a bit unfair.
Having said that, I am also a senior IELTS and ESOL examiner and would say that IELTS 5 is not very high ability, especially when a 5 can come from a reading and listening score of 6 and a speaking and writing of 4 (overall band is the mean of the 4 sub-skills). Actually language testing is much more complex than anyone would guess, and any score needs interpretation and understanding. Frankly, being a language tester has made me not trust the validity (not to mention the reliability) of any measure of language ability.
TME
Having said that, I am also a senior IELTS and ESOL examiner and would say that IELTS 5 is not very high ability, especially when a 5 can come from a reading and listening score of 6 and a speaking and writing of 4 (overall band is the mean of the 4 sub-skills). Actually language testing is much more complex than anyone would guess, and any score needs interpretation and understanding. Frankly, being a language tester has made me not trust the validity (not to mention the reliability) of any measure of language ability.
TME