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SIA 777 off the rwy at EDDM

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SIA 777 off the rwy at EDDM

Old 4th Nov 2011, 10:49
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SIA 777 WAS AUTOLAND

interesting as one adds insult to injury a chief pilot of another fleet in SIA has mentioned that this aircraft was on a autoland which ended on the grass.

just goes to display ignorance and standard of training at SIA, if the crew was even unable to disconnect and manually take over.

4th floor is still buzzing with the blame game.

rumour has it that mainline will get an extra months bonus, but cargo will have to take responsibility for the incident.

solved the singaporean way ! all confused
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 11:39
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rumour has it that mainline will get an extra months bonus, but cargo will have to take responsibility for the incident.
Quite how do you work that one out CARGOJOCK? Obviously you are joking?

SIA mainline has been having some close shaves lately
Care to substantiate that with facts?

their pilots are brainwashed to fly numbers and not fly the airplane fly like it is in the book (NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH SOP) and is surprised when the wind shifts or gusts pure robotics.
Certainly not the case when I flew for them, maybe you have an axe to grind CARGOJOCK?
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 12:26
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My spies in SIA tell me it's only a matter of time with the experience level of those running the place and those allowed to operate as PIC's in this company.I hope we are wrong and it never happens!!
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 13:27
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Perhaps they are still letting FOs do the autoland. Don't think it doesn't happen there.

The best part is that whoever did it, the paxing non-flying crew (who may not have even been in the cockpit) will get to equally share in the glory. All are at fault until proven otherwise.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 13:35
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With the occurrence of runway excursion happening quite frequently recently, does anyone know whether it'd be cheaper for the airports to simply tarmac the entire area and draw a runway on, rather than keep damaging aircraft?
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 13:48
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M-B Re ‘tarmac the entire area’.
Simpler still, for crews to subtract 90m from the lading distance available and plan accordingly.

Any suggestion that a runway change was being planned after the landing?
Potential for reversed LOC beam during roll out.

Any history with 777 of autothrust disconnect problems after autoland?
Potential for one engine to accelerate to a higher thrust level and contribute to a lateral deviation.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 14:43
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My buddies in SIA tell me the captain was a local.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 14:46
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Just landed on 08R this morning, and we could see the skid marks quite well. It appeared to me that the 777 went off to the left at about the end of the TDZ, with both MLGs in the grass. Could have been different, I was kind of busy landing...
Then, maybe 300m further down, the skidmarks came across the entire RWY, and I could see the pulsating of the antiskid quite well. Looked like it worked fine on both gears. After that it went off to the right into the grass, only pushing the dirt away, about 30cm (1 foot) deep.

There was a SIA 777 parked at the regular gate, but one of our TECs told me that the one from yesterday is in the LH hangar.

The postion given on the avherald seems quite accurate.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 15:54
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Off the left side at the end of the TDZ? They'd still be moving fast so they might have gotten lucky, especially since it hadn't rained recently.

From the pictures it looks like a lateral excursion vs. an overrun.

Last edited by misd-agin; 4th Nov 2011 at 15:59. Reason: added last sentence
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 16:02
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" Fo's only land if 5kts and CAVOK"
" Autoland, to be on the safe side"

Are these 2 comments above for real?
If so, I think I'll be booking elsewhere when I go to the Far East.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 16:14
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macdo

not true
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:05
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THE TRUTH IS EMBARRASSING

etops777 is making BS.

landings to FO are governed by special instructions and some of them include what was mentioned wind ,visibility, wet , so these young lads have absolutely no exposure of landing in weather.

hey etops777 you forgot to mention that the command program for a FO to captain takes 9 month at SIA. the reason is because of lack of handling experience in day to day conditions.
only given in CAVOK to CALM so the day these factors change for the minimum or high crosswinds is the day these fellas make autolands.
this is fine but then you see that you just cannot engage AP and sit and relax things do go wrong, and this day it did and the lads upfront were unprepared.

here we go to the grass!!!

it has been luck that has kept SIA out of the news,but this is the tip of the burg it has had near misses, CFIT and many more all shoved under the carpet for commercial reasons.

no one wishes any mis fortune but luck is important!!!

safe flight...........
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:18
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Cargo jock

I don't think you know me!

You sounded bitter here in the SIA group. No one is holding a gun to you to stay in SQC.

This incidence can happen to anyone. It's not about which nationality is at control. If it it so unsafe then please find a greener pasture and don't just run but sprint.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:18
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CFIT is quite a claim. How do you sweep that one under the carpet?
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:30
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Under these tame circumstances, at least the crew had enough intuition not to evacuate.
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:34
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TRUTH HURTS SAID AGAIN

i do not need to go anywhere, and certainly not on to greener pastures.
no need to know you your alias says it all......

sweeping under the carpet takes a whole new meaning at SIA.

we all should have the report thats if not swept under the carpet.

but heads will roll.......no happen in SIA lah!!!
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 17:38
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Please Cargojock...

You have been here long enough to know that your post is BS. Yes, there are special instructions for FO landings and I don't always agree with them:

"For landing, the visibility is 3 km or better; the ceiling is 500ft or higher; the crosswind component is 15 kts or less"

I agree that keeping this for FO:s regardless of their time in the company is wrong. These are good starting values that should be removed with experience.

Unfortunately your ranting makes your posts look like sour grapes. If you want to give critique, be factual.

We don't know what happened but I can promise you that an uncommanded full rudder or tiller after touchdown is very hard to deal with. Ask for a try in the SIM and even when you know it will happen it's not easy to handle. Unless, of course, you are God's gift to aviation... but if so, what the hell are you doing in SQC?
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 18:03
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Runway excursion event

For modern autoflight systems, as on the B777, with filtered path definition, even if some type of transient LOC multipath interference should occur (e.g., with no LVP in place, or failed LVPs), and even if at low speed, that magnitude of apparent lateral displacement would not typically be expected. We'll likely just need to wait for the incident review findings to learn more about this one. ...as we continue to hope for early and widespread implemmentation of GLS, where multipath and related LVPs are largely irrelevant.

Regards,
ti
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 18:18
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Cargo Jack

Incidence does not only happened in SQ. What happened with those at CX? a 744 nearly flew into the mountain in HKG few years ago! What about QF 744 in BKK? Aren't they well trained? Then why in the world they overshot, realised that it will be a deep landing on a wet/contaminated runway decides to continue only to ended up on the grass! Were they not senior Capt and FO?

Give us a break Cargo Jock! No one wants to get involved in any incident, moreover we don't even have the factual report yet.

Chilled dude or mate(if your from Aus)..

Last edited by etops777; 4th Nov 2011 at 18:36. Reason: typo
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Old 4th Nov 2011, 18:23
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Maybe a practice auto-land without CAT3 runway protections and someone was given a conditional line-up behind him. I remember seeing this a few years ago at LGW when a 757 was doing one and a 747 lined behind just as he was in the flare. Became quite exciting for a short while! Note: The tower did warn him that there was no protections!

Unless the SIA had some sort of steering problem then it sounds plausible.
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