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Yak42 crash, Russia

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Old 9th Sep 2011, 02:42
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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Given the basic design and the actual pax, overweight seems awfully unlikely.

Jammed elevator? Gross mistrim? Both might cause failure to rotate.

Crew incapacitation at VR? Seems massively improbable, but ...?
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 02:58
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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it's not a huge aircraft, surely 2500M is enough.

and

after 1000m in the roll they must have known something was wrong so why not reject?
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 05:17
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IL76 take off at an airport in Australia

Is this routine take off ?

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Old 9th Sep 2011, 05:50
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According to Russian deputy minister of transport they started their take-off roll 150 from threshold,thus giving 2850m of runway left. It's actually twice a distance required given their load.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 05:57
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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Did they actually rotate and achieve and kind of pos-rate? If not dare I suggest gust locks? It has happened before and will happen again.
edit - Although in hindsight after reading that, surely upon realisation that the elevators were 'jammed' by such, an RTO would have been performed so I'm most likely miles off the mark.

Last edited by RingwayWrench; 9th Sep 2011 at 06:00. Reason: missed my point!
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 08:23
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Is this routine take off ?
Videoguy,, to be honest although the answer should be no, the IL-76 had a reputation for this (mainly due to being overloaded). Saw it a few times at my local airport and they were subsequently banned from operating by the authorities.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 08:37
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Flaps were out if you see this
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 10:08
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news comes here

From ; MAK

Google Translator Översätt
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 12:36
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associated news comin live

Hi
Here is a news board with associated news
coming in more or less live ;

News Feed: Lokomotiv Yaroslavl Plane Crash | News | The Moscow Times
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 12:41
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:00
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Flaps and stabilizer set, investigators confirm: Crashed Yak-42 had flaps deployed and functioning engines

****
this pretty much takes care of all the prevailing theories floating around so far. Time to make new ones
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:04
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Flaps and stabilizer set, investigators confirm
The whole matter reminds me on the Spanair crash at Madrid. Therefore the question is if the slats were set correctly, too?

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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:16
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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Exact statement from MAK website:

...before takeoff, the stabilizer was set to 8.7 degrees "pitch up" and the flaps were installed in the aircraft take-off position - 20 degrees. The engines worked until the moment of collision with obstacles...
CVR/FDR reading in progress.

By process of elimination, if aircraft was configured properly and weights were within limits, the only remaining reasons why it would fail to accelerate sufficiently would be either insufficient thrust or set brakes... Working engines in my reading translates to all engines producing power at impact. Exactly how much power remains to be determined.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:30
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by azalea
...the question is if the slats were set correctly, too?
Yes, clearly visible on the video. Slats/flaps extend together, unless there is a malfunction (with associated warnings) you cannot have flaps 20 without extended slats. This accident seems to have nothing in common with Spanair.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:45
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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Flaps

Looking at the photo posted as #53 the flaps seem to me to be extended more than 20 degrees. Or is it just because of the lookout of the snap?
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:59
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Video only tells that flaps/slats were deployed WHEN a/c hit the obstacle...
What about beginning of t/o run?
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 15:59
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Post 38 (CargonOne) states that derated take-offs are not an option on the Yak-42, assuming this to be true, why?
Can't see why a derated take-off can't be done with enough runway/low AUW, does the Yak-42 have a configuration that puts it in the bucket if you rotate at less than a given thrust?
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 16:21
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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According to Russian media the authorities disallowed refuling local fuel at Yaroslavl airport until further notice. The fuel is being transported from other regional airports by road tankers. There is seems to be a rumor that crashed Yak42 was refueled with contaminated fuel.
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 17:34
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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Working engines in my reading translates to all engines producing power at impact.

Make that .... able to produce power

Most early releases of on-scene investigation will not have the fidelity to say how much power. The fidelity is at best something above idle. More detailed examination in a strip teardown increases the fidelity.

I simply infer from the press release that there were no outward signs of broken engine parts
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Old 9th Sep 2011, 17:57
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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So Where Was This Camera Located

First time poster, an SLF.
The head-on camera view at the end of the video on post #51 is intriguing. It appears the camera was not at ground level but elevated about 4 feet (just an estimate ???). Looking at the fenceline to the left adds to that impression. The foreground also appears like a grassy unprepared surface. Was this camera located on the extended runway centerline past the end of the runway or perhaps off to the side?
Also, if you look closely at the video, at about the 22 -23 second mark the aircraft lights appear to suddenly dip. Was that the moment the aircraft left the prepared surface and continued to roll out on the grass? The nose gear is clearly off the ground, viewed directly and by it's shadow on the ground but the main gear are still on the ground (or grass).
Just a few thoughts. Thanks for reading - any comments are encouraged.
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