Chinese Pilot refused to give way to Qatar Aw. Emergency
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Greetings all,
Don't be under any illusion that PRC pilots will give the consideration due to that type of urgency. My own experience there is that the airways are carrying a cultural problem of "after me you're next" that is usual and everyday life in PRC.
You'll often find their own pilots either carrying less fuel or over max gross to carry the high pax loadings valued by their masters. The aviation culture won't permit a can't do attitude even though it contradicts what western agencies like to hear. Just because PRC companies and CAAC, say whatever western agencies like to hear, doesn't mean that's what will happen at line level.
First hand.
Don't be under any illusion that PRC pilots will give the consideration due to that type of urgency. My own experience there is that the airways are carrying a cultural problem of "after me you're next" that is usual and everyday life in PRC.
You'll often find their own pilots either carrying less fuel or over max gross to carry the high pax loadings valued by their masters. The aviation culture won't permit a can't do attitude even though it contradicts what western agencies like to hear. Just because PRC companies and CAAC, say whatever western agencies like to hear, doesn't mean that's what will happen at line level.
First hand.
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CAAC decided to:
- revoke the pilot licence of Juneyao's Korean A320 captain without possibility to re-apply for a pilot licence and suspend the pilot licence of the first officer for a period of 6 months. In China the captain is prohibited to operate as any crew member.
- reduce Juneyao Airline's flights by 10% for the next 3 months
- stop Juneyao Airline's expansion plans
- suspend Juneyao Airline's rights to hire foreign pilots
- require Juneyao Airline to provide training of 40 hours to all their foreign pilots in order to educate them of China's civil aviation flight rules, operating rules, the company's operating manual and cockpit resource management.
Don't you think it's an absolute joke to reduce flights by 10% and stop expansion?
- revoke the pilot licence of Juneyao's Korean A320 captain without possibility to re-apply for a pilot licence and suspend the pilot licence of the first officer for a period of 6 months. In China the captain is prohibited to operate as any crew member.
- reduce Juneyao Airline's flights by 10% for the next 3 months
- stop Juneyao Airline's expansion plans
- suspend Juneyao Airline's rights to hire foreign pilots
- require Juneyao Airline to provide training of 40 hours to all their foreign pilots in order to educate them of China's civil aviation flight rules, operating rules, the company's operating manual and cockpit resource management.
Don't you think it's an absolute joke to reduce flights by 10% and stop expansion?
Pegase Driver
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Don't you think it's an absolute joke to reduce flights by 10% and stop expansion?
Not bad I'd say...for a communist country
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Echo...
Echo...
That's the POINT!
CAAC Investigation Report Summary:- ATC ordered Juneyao crew to yield for 6 times in 7 minutes, but the crew denied all!- After landed, Juneyao aircraft (A320) still hold 2900 kg fuel while Qtar's (B777) had 5200 kg.PS: according the web, Juneyao captain is from South Korea and she used to be hotel receptionist before she decided to be a pilot.
That's the POINT!
CAAC Investigation Report Summary:- ATC ordered Juneyao crew to yield for 6 times in 7 minutes, but the crew denied all!- After landed, Juneyao aircraft (A320) still hold 2900 kg fuel while Qtar's (B777) had 5200 kg.PS: according the web, Juneyao captain is from South Korea and she used to be hotel receptionist before she decided to be a pilot.
Last edited by ddylj; 30th Aug 2011 at 02:50. Reason: Re-Edit
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according the web, Juneyao captain is from South Korea and she used to be hotel receptionist before she decided to be a pilot.
I used to stack Supermarket shelves, now I fly 777s.
If the said Captain felt it was against the wishes of her employer to go-around when instructed, that is the fault of her training, not her nationality, gender or former employment.
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hyzhao11 :
Definitively not, sorry, this was meant as a joke, not an offence. I just find it amusing that a communist government has to use such methods to get back in line local private airline company owners .
PS : I know a litle bit about European hard line communism, we had a wall here until 1990 .
ATC watcher, do u think you are auperior to pilots in a communist country?never forget,communism was created by your European man.
PS : I know a litle bit about European hard line communism, we had a wall here until 1990 .
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It's ok for junyao stoping expansion after this event, I am glad to see both planes are safe finally. China is short of pilots, So it's possible to let some unqualified ones into it. hoping 40 hrs are enough for the training.
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Any form of generalization have the tendency to create frustration that leads to a dangerous and useless cultural confrontation ... ' we are the product of our past and we worship the Gods of our Fathers.'
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This knee jerk reaction smells a lot like something coming out of the astronauts running the Indian DGCA. What if the crew was Chinese? Stop recruiting Chinese pilots and only take on expats?!
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Exemplary punishment for an exemplary violation
The violation was absolutely blatant and unjustified.
The punishment is exemplary, but they should have focused more on the crazy woman rather than with the airline, unless they have found that the airline is hirig crazy women to fly their airplanes as a policy.
How many pilots have done something like that without being mentally ill? This woman is mentally ill, for sure.
The punishment is exemplary, but they should have focused more on the crazy woman rather than with the airline, unless they have found that the airline is hirig crazy women to fly their airplanes as a policy.
How many pilots have done something like that without being mentally ill? This woman is mentally ill, for sure.
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Is this really correct? If so, what's your source?
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CAAC Announces Official Findings about Qatar Airways MAYDAY Incident
CAAC Announces Official Findings about Qatar Airways MAYDAY Incident
By Simon Li, WCARN.com | Aug. 30, 2011
On August 29, East China Regional Administration of CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) published findings and verdicts of the official investigation into the incident involving a Juneyao Airlines pilot's refusal to follow ATC instructions and give way to another flight with MAYDAY declaration on August 13, 2011.
The official conclusion not only considers the refusal to follow ATC instructions by cockpit crew of Juneyao Airlines flight HO1112 when an emergency declaration was already made concerning another aircraft is a very serious violation of applicable rules, regulations and legislations, but such behavior was also contrary to the professional ethics supposed to be possessed by pilots.
Based on the aforementioned official conclusion, CAAC East China Regional Administration has made the following administrative decisions:
1. The processing of any application (to be) submitted by Juneyao Airlines concerning its business expansion, branch company establishment and aircraft purchasing/leasing etc. is temporarily suspended whilst reducing the airline's flight capacity by 10% for 3 calendar months.
2. The permission for recruiting foreign flight crew by Juneyao Airlines is temporarily suspended while the authority conducts re-evaluation on this matter.
3. Juneyao Airlines must conduct at least 40 hours of ground theoretical training courses to all of its foreign pilots within the next 30 days. The training focuses should relate to the rules and regulations of flight operations in China as well as CRM and the airline's "Operating Manual". The training processes will be closely monitored with results carefully assessed by the CAAC East China Regional Administration.
4. Under the circumstance of clear violation of relevant rules set in CCAR-91-R2 (General Operations and Flight Rules) by Juneyao Airlines flight HO1112's cockpit crew, it has been decided that the Chinese ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot License) of the concerned Juneyao Airlines' Korean captain will be revoked with neither any future application nor working as a cockpit crew within China to be allowed, and the relevant civil aviation authorities in Korea will be notified. Additionally, the pilot license of flight HO1112's co-pilot is also to be withheld for 6 months by the authority.
By Simon Li, WCARN.com | Aug. 30, 2011
On August 29, East China Regional Administration of CAAC (Civil Aviation Administration of China) published findings and verdicts of the official investigation into the incident involving a Juneyao Airlines pilot's refusal to follow ATC instructions and give way to another flight with MAYDAY declaration on August 13, 2011.
The official conclusion not only considers the refusal to follow ATC instructions by cockpit crew of Juneyao Airlines flight HO1112 when an emergency declaration was already made concerning another aircraft is a very serious violation of applicable rules, regulations and legislations, but such behavior was also contrary to the professional ethics supposed to be possessed by pilots.
Based on the aforementioned official conclusion, CAAC East China Regional Administration has made the following administrative decisions:
1. The processing of any application (to be) submitted by Juneyao Airlines concerning its business expansion, branch company establishment and aircraft purchasing/leasing etc. is temporarily suspended whilst reducing the airline's flight capacity by 10% for 3 calendar months.
2. The permission for recruiting foreign flight crew by Juneyao Airlines is temporarily suspended while the authority conducts re-evaluation on this matter.
3. Juneyao Airlines must conduct at least 40 hours of ground theoretical training courses to all of its foreign pilots within the next 30 days. The training focuses should relate to the rules and regulations of flight operations in China as well as CRM and the airline's "Operating Manual". The training processes will be closely monitored with results carefully assessed by the CAAC East China Regional Administration.
4. Under the circumstance of clear violation of relevant rules set in CCAR-91-R2 (General Operations and Flight Rules) by Juneyao Airlines flight HO1112's cockpit crew, it has been decided that the Chinese ATPL (Airline Transport Pilot License) of the concerned Juneyao Airlines' Korean captain will be revoked with neither any future application nor working as a cockpit crew within China to be allowed, and the relevant civil aviation authorities in Korea will be notified. Additionally, the pilot license of flight HO1112's co-pilot is also to be withheld for 6 months by the authority.
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That is translated based on the offcial website,
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