Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Chinese Pilot refused to give way to Qatar Aw. Emergency

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Chinese Pilot refused to give way to Qatar Aw. Emergency

Old 25th Aug 2011, 05:33
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: Southern Shores of Lusitania Kingdom
Age: 53
Posts: 858
Received 3 Likes on 3 Posts
Chinese Pilot refused to give way to Qatar Aw. Emergency

Well ... its what this peculiar lil' story here tells us »»»

Air Disaster Narrowly Averted in China: Report | The Jakarta Globe
JanetFlight is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 05:47
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: n/a
Posts: 1,425
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
China’s civil aviation authority said in a statement ...those responsible would be “severely punished.”
That's a just culture at work right there...
Daysleeper is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 08:11
  #3 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: UK
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Courtesy of Arabian Supply Chain

Qatar Airways declares emergency on China flight
by ASC Staff on Aug 25, 2011

Qatar Airways declared emergency on a flight to Shanghai’s Pudong Airport this month, due to fuel levels on its Boeing 777-300 being low, it has been reported.

The national carrier was performing flight QR-888 from Doha on 13th August 2011 when the incident occurred, according to Aviation Herald.

Due to weather conditions, the aircraft needed to enter a holding around 14:40L and it was subsequently diverted to Shanghai’s Hongqiao Airport after fuel levels become low.

However, a Juneyao Airlines flight was approaching the airport at the same time and crew therefore received an Air Traffic Control instruction to accommodate the Qatar Airways emergency by aborting their approach.

The instructions were apparent refused and Juneyao Airlines continued their approach for a safe landing, forcing Qatar Airways to delay its own landing.

Aviation Herald reports that the Middle Eastern airline was then able to land and later continued to Pudong, reaching with a total delay of nine hours.

China's Civil Aviation Authority (CAAC) has launched an investigation and pledged: "Verified violations will be severely dealt with according to law."
el sol is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 09:21
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Location: Berkshire, UK
Age: 79
Posts: 8,268
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I guess we don't know the true facts. Does "aborting their approach" mean at some point on final approach, or further out? How come the Qatar flight just suddenly appeared on the scene? If it was behind the other flight I don't understand what the fuss was about. There should have been advance warning to ATC of an aircraft with severe fuel shortage so that the approach sequence could have been arranged accordingly.
HEATHROW DIRECTOR is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 09:58
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2001
Posts: 10,815
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wonder how much fuel the Juneyao Airlines had in the tanks when it landed.

I suspect it will have less airborne time than the Qatar aircraft.
mad_jock is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 10:06
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2008
Location: WMKK/KUL
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I Agree with HEATHROW DIRECTOR,

I'm pretty sure the airplane wouldn't have appeared from out of nowhere.

Have a feeling that there is a tad bit more to this than meets the ear.

Regardless, i'm sure the 45mins FR would have kicked in anyway, right? If need be?

Interesting.
jfkjohan is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 10:16
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: Courchevel
Posts: 848
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
My mate operates for a Chinese carrier and it sounds plausible to me given the stories I've heard! I guess we don't have all the facts though.
Count von Altibar is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 14:08
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Canada
Posts: 105
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
"The pilot of the Qatar plane said it had just five minutes’ worth of fuel left after it was diverted from Shanghai, the Global Times newspaper reported, adding that a disastrous accident was only narrowly averted.

"
st7860 is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 14:32
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: Australia
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Incident: Qatar B773 and Juneyao A320 near Shanghai on Aug 13th 2011, fuel emergency or not

By Simon Hradecky, created Wednesday, Aug 24th 2011 20:19Z, last updated Wednesday, Aug 24th 2011 20:19Z
A Qatar Airways Boeing 777-300, registration A7-BAC performing flight QR-888 from Doha (Qatar) to Shanghai (China), needed to enter a holding around 14:40L (06:40Z) while on approach to Shanghai's Pudong Airport due to weather. The crew subsequently decided to divert to Shanghai's Hongqiao Airport at 15:10L and declared emergency due to being low on fuel.

A Juneyao Airlines Airbus A320-200, flight HO-1112 from Shenzhen to Shanghai Hongquiao (China), was on approach to Hongqiao Airport, when Air Traffic Control instructed the crew to abort the approach in order to accomodate the emergency of QR-888. The crew, without requesting priority or declaring emergency, refused the instructions and continued their approach for a safe landing forcing ATC to delay the Boeing 777-300.

Flight QR-888 landed safely on Shanghai's Hongqiao Airport at 15:37L following the Airbus. The aircraft later continued to Pudong reaching their destination with a delay of 9 hours.

China's Civil Aviation Authority (CAAC) reported on Aug 24th that QR-888 declared emergency due to fuel shortage while waiting for approach to Pudong and diverted to Hongqiao. Air Traffic Control issued instructions to Juneyao's flight 1112 to give way to the Qatar Boeing, the crew however did not comply with the instructions forcing the controllers to re-arrange the landing sequence. The CAAC opened an investigation and pledged: "Verified violations will be severely dealt with according to law."

A briefing circling in China's aviation industry suggests that the Qatar Boeing 777 landed with 5 tons of fuel remaining, the Juneyao Airbus A320 with 2.9 tons of fuel remaining.

Metars Pudong:
ZSPD 130900Z 24008G13MPS 210V270 9999 -TSRA SQ SCT030CB 29/23 Q1005 BECMG FM0910 33007G12MPS +TSRA SQ
ZSPD 130830Z VRB01MPS 9999 TS FEW030CB 29/22 Q1002 BECMG TL0930 20005MPS TSRA
ZSPD 130800Z 32008G13MPS 9999 TS SCT016 SCT030CB 27/21 Q1003 BECMG TL0915 22005MPS -SHRA
ZSPD 130730Z VRB03MPS 9999 -TSRA SCT016 SCT030CB 29/23 Q1003 BECMG TL0900 22005MPS NSW
ZSPD 130700Z 14006MPS 9999 TS SCT030 SCT030CB 32/25 Q1003 BECMG TL0830 NSW
ZSPD 130630Z 15005MPS 120V180 8000 SCT026 FEW026TCU 33/25 Q1003 WS RWY17R NOSIG
ZSPD 130600Z 14007MPS 8000 SCT026 FEW026TCU 33/25 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSPD 130530Z 17005MPS 8000 SCT026 FEW026TCU 32/26 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSPD 130500Z 17007MPS 7000 SCT026 FEW026TCU 32/26 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSPD 130430Z 16006MPS 7000 SCT026 32/26 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSPD 130400Z 19004MPS 150V270 7000 SCT023 33/25 Q1004 NOSIG
ZSPD 130330Z 21003MPS 150V290 7000 SCT023 FEW023TCU 33/24 Q1004 NOSIG

Metars Hongqiao:
ZSSS 130900Z VRB01MPS CAVOK 25/24 Q1005 RETSRA NOSIG
ZSSS 130830Z 21007MPS 160V240 1600 R18L/0800VP2000D R18R/1000VP2000D +TSRA BKN026CB 25/23 Q1004 BECMG TL0840 TSRA
ZSSS 130800Z 12007MPS 9999 -TSRA SCT030CB 29/21 Q1002 BECMG TL0840 TSRA
ZSSS 130730Z 18007MPS 8000 SCT030 32/24 Q1002 NOSIG
ZSSS 130700Z 22005MPS 9999 FEW030TCU 33/24 Q1002 NOSIG
ZSSS 130630Z 24004MPS 190V280 9999 FEW030TCU SCT030 34/22 Q1002 NOSIG
ZSSS 130600Z 23005MPS 200V260 9999 SCT030 34/23 Q1002 NOSIG
ZSSS 130530Z 22003MPS 170V250 9999 SCT030 34/24 Q1002 NOSIG
ZSSS 130500Z 23003MPS 190V280 9999 BKN028 34/25 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSSS 130430Z 24002MPS 200V280 9999 BKN028 33/24 Q1003 NOSIG
ZSSS 130400Z 25003MPS 220V290 9999 BKN026 33/24 Q1003 NOSIG
myradios is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 15:14
  #10 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Plumpton Green
Age: 79
Posts: 1,035
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The pilot of the Qatar plane said it had just five minutes’ worth of fuel left
A briefing circling in China's aviation industry suggests that the Qatar Boeing 777 landed with 5 tons of fuel remaining,
Minutes, tons, whatever. It was five though.
patowalker is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 15:15
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Why would u care??
Posts: 85
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I seriously hope that the discussion will not go along the line of whether or not Qatari crew should have declared a fuel emergency based on their perceived delay or endurance.

The main point here being, when you hear an emergency declared, relayed by tower/app controller to yield your slot, I think it's utterly disgraceful that this was not taken more seriously by the said Chinese aircraft driver (they don't even deserve to be addressed as crew, let alone pilots.)

There's only an exception in this case, that the Juneyao flight is in distress itself.
break_break is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 15:23
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Kelowna Wine Country
Posts: 509
Likes: 0
Received 22 Likes on 8 Posts
The ancouver Sun, accurate as ever, is running the story headed by a picture of an F18. Now that's an interesting airline to fly with.
ChrisVJ is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 15:36
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: Somewhere
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I wonder how much of the account is straight from official sources and how much is just reporting unchecked reports. Bet the truth of this is way off what the interwebthing is saying.
Jazz Hands is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 16:04
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2002
Location: Florida
Posts: 4,569
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
When I read headline grabbing stories like this I tend to read into it alternate explanations that play the even way down.

It's only after I'm proved wrong that I get excited
lomapaseo is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 17:02
  #15 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2001
Location: Boldly going where no split infinitive has gone before..
Posts: 4,785
Received 44 Likes on 20 Posts
Minutes, tons, whatever. It was five though.
Well, five tonnes is about 5 minutes (MAYBE 10) above Final Reserve in a Heavy 777-300, so that might be what was being alluded too.
Wizofoz is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 20:25
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2008
Location: Europe
Age: 45
Posts: 625
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Had a bit of trawl through the various articles posted in the innerweb about this alleged incident, trying to find the source. Didn't succeede in that, but did notice that all of the articles seem to be based on rumours spawned on enthusiasts internet forums.

As the story is picked up by other media, something very interesting happens that turns rumours into facts. One article quotes as follows: "A netizen going by the name "Boeing" who claimed to have heard the recording ...". In subsequent articles, who are clearly doing little more than a cut and paste job, the same information is presented as facts, and without naming the source. In essence it comes "recordings clearly shows".

So what we have here seems to be a story spawned on an internet forum for enthusiasts, picked up by another site that's monitored by "the media" and eventually published.

I'm not saying it didn't happen, only that the sources of information so far are of unknown, and questionable, quality. And that we're essentially sat on an internet forum, discussing rumours that seem to have its origins on another one.

Still, better than watching TV I suppose.
SMT Member is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 23:11
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2011
Location: Melbourne Australia
Age: 28
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by mad_jock
I wonder how much fuel the Juneyao Airlines had in the tanks when it landed.

I suspect it will have less airborne time than the Qatar aircraft.
mad_jock,
If the Juneyao Airlines aircraft had less airborne time than the Qatar aircraft, wouldn't it have declared a fuel emergency too? There's no statement about the Juneyao aircraft being in any emergency whatsoever.
Baumy is offline  
Old 25th Aug 2011, 23:35
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Location: Above the Transition Level
Posts: 160
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Well if the fuel figures from myradios are true 2.9T in a 320 is significantly more than the Qatar final reserve +5mins.
1.2T ish = 30 min final reserve leaving 1.7T holding and alternate fuel.

I wonder if the Juneyao crew knew the Qatar had declared an emergency and that was why they had been asked to break off their approach? Its easy to judge without all the facts...
Sure if they were in the loop about that its unforgivable with that much left i the tanks.
ElitePilot is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2011, 00:43
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Location: HKG
Posts: 17
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Language barrier?

It's worth considering the possibility that a language barrier was part (if not most) of the problem. I regularly operate through PVG and SHA, and English is only used in comms with LESS THAN HALF of the aircraft on frequency.

The Qatari flight would have been using English and ATC would have been responding in English. The Juneyao crew would have been using Mandarin with ATC responding in Mandarin.

The loss of situational awareness that this causes is unnerving, even while ops are normal. We are forced to rely heavily on TCAS as primary means for situational awareness in terminal airspace. Awareness of comms from/to most other aircraft in the vicinity is lost.

In a fuel (or other) emergency, the possibility of a "lost in translation" causing at least confusion and at worst fatalities is a very real threat.

...but all Chinese pilots speak English to level 6, right ICAO? Grrr...
goneferrying is offline  
Old 26th Aug 2011, 01:04
  #20 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Singapore
Posts: 2
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
According to the Chinese civil aviation regulator, the Chinese plane was found to have sufficient fuel to keep it in the air for another hour while the Qatari pilot had just five minutes' supply left.
Double A is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.