Air India Captain Arrested
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These fake pilots may have forged their mark sheets but don't the airlines have any simulator checks and written exams for command conversion these days?
In the not very distant past, AI FOs listed for command conversion had fly under a check pilot for 200 plus hours and lots of simulator checks before being released. My dad used to be a check pilot and a DGCA examiner. He had flunked a lot of FOs including a few of his close friends.
Secondly, even if a airline is recruiting them directly as Captains, don't these fakies undergo simulator checks. It's very easy for a check pilot to catch these guys on a sim.
Fake pilots are only the tip of the ice berg. If you dig in, you'll come across fake AMEs and technicians.
_________________
In the not very distant past, AI FOs listed for command conversion had fly under a check pilot for 200 plus hours and lots of simulator checks before being released. My dad used to be a check pilot and a DGCA examiner. He had flunked a lot of FOs including a few of his close friends.
Secondly, even if a airline is recruiting them directly as Captains, don't these fakies undergo simulator checks. It's very easy for a check pilot to catch these guys on a sim.
Fake pilots are only the tip of the ice berg. If you dig in, you'll come across fake AMEs and technicians.
_________________
"Fake Pilots" are really not fake pilots, they are people who generally know how to fly but have falsified their advanced certificates or paid bribes to persons in authority to do so. It seems that reading these threads this problem is endemic and the certification process is not transparent.
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same old, same old
Delhi Police hot on fake marksheets' trail
I regard this as simply a manifestation of the growing gap between a modernizing and internationalizing Indian private sector economy, and a public sector that is still rooted in a many decades old bureacracy based on patronage and seniority, and utterly without the mechanisms to reform to meet demands for performance and accountability. Having traveled through Indian airports since the 60s, I find now that that while the airports are generally more modern and polished (although check out GAU and IXR for remnants of the past), the antiquated governance systems remain unchanged.
I regard this as simply a manifestation of the growing gap between a modernizing and internationalizing Indian private sector economy, and a public sector that is still rooted in a many decades old bureacracy based on patronage and seniority, and utterly without the mechanisms to reform to meet demands for performance and accountability. Having traveled through Indian airports since the 60s, I find now that that while the airports are generally more modern and polished (although check out GAU and IXR for remnants of the past), the antiquated governance systems remain unchanged.
When you get this from the "top", then you might have cause to speculate on what to expect from those further down the food chain in India...
Japan nuclear crisis: No nuclear accident in Fukushima, say Indian N-experts
Japan nuclear crisis: No nuclear accident in Fukushima, say Indian N-experts - The Economic Times
Japan nuclear crisis: No nuclear accident in Fukushima, say Indian N-experts - The Economic Times
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"remind me never to fly with an indian carrier"
They have their bad apples like any region of the planet. Some Indian pilots are among some of the very best aviators I have ever flown with.
To get a flavor of the CRM atmosphere on an Indian crewed flight, try this clip:
Coireall (retired after 42 years in aviation, 4 of them spent in India)
They have their bad apples like any region of the planet. Some Indian pilots are among some of the very best aviators I have ever flown with.
To get a flavor of the CRM atmosphere on an Indian crewed flight, try this clip:
Coireall (retired after 42 years in aviation, 4 of them spent in India)
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not just india guys.... italy france, gb..... all the new atpl candidates are just memorizing the questions without having a clue on what a wing is.
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Falsely implicated
I would like to inform all that please do not go by what is being disclosed in the indian media. In India media is not responsible and there is no punishment to bring disrepute to a person in India.
I know one Captain who has been implicated in the false documents case even though he has all documents and licence in order. But just because he is participating in protesting against injustice done to him that he is falsely being implicated by the CMD of the company to bring him disrepute and have ground to terminate his services even though there is no case against him.
There may be a few black sheep, but its very very few.
I know one Captain who has been implicated in the false documents case even though he has all documents and licence in order. But just because he is participating in protesting against injustice done to him that he is falsely being implicated by the CMD of the company to bring him disrepute and have ground to terminate his services even though there is no case against him.
There may be a few black sheep, but its very very few.
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Originally Posted by samjetblaster
There are plenty of these type of Pilots in Emirates,Etihad,Qatar Airways,etc....
In over 8 years by the way
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I just don't ge the point of post 45 other than what a great advert for Kingfisher it is.
Can someone help me out here... what was the point of that. What does that have to do with the basic topic of thread. What that one of the captains arrested?
I thought the wet t-shirt contest. filmed in April, 1998, that was performed on Falcon Air, A former Miami based airline, was far better than the one in post 54.
Check it out... it's someplace on YOU TUBE. Now that was great CRM
!
it is. Can someone help me out here... what was the point of that. What does that have to do with the basic topic of thread. What that one of the captains arrested?
I thought the wet t-shirt contest. filmed in April, 1998, that was performed on Falcon Air, A former Miami based airline, was far better than the one in post 54.
Check it out... it's someplace on YOU TUBE. Now that was great CRM
!
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Why The Licence Issuer Escapes Scot Free
India is a strange country-here the pilot is arrested for fake mark sheet but no action is taken against those who work the Goverment and throgh their sins of ommission and commission issues the fake Licences.
The Pilot pays them (DGCA) Rs. 5000/- for screening his licence application and issue of a licence. The Pilot also pays Rs. 5000/- for every rating or aircraft he wants endorsed on the licence. After this the DGCA takes months to issue the licence and in the process freqently asks for various irrelevant certificates and papers. Yet, if the DGCA doesn't perform the due deligence who is to blame?
The DGCA should pay damages to the arrested Pilots.
Finally, how did the Airlines accept these fake pilots in their ranks? Are these pilots only paper fake and skill competent.
The Pilot pays them (DGCA) Rs. 5000/- for screening his licence application and issue of a licence. The Pilot also pays Rs. 5000/- for every rating or aircraft he wants endorsed on the licence. After this the DGCA takes months to issue the licence and in the process freqently asks for various irrelevant certificates and papers. Yet, if the DGCA doesn't perform the due deligence who is to blame?
The DGCA should pay damages to the arrested Pilots.
Finally, how did the Airlines accept these fake pilots in their ranks? Are these pilots only paper fake and skill competent.
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Excuse me Jetwins... I need to know where you are coming from.
You have a group of arrogant people who did not follow the rules. Knowingly it would be an illegal act. These illegals bribed the DGCA so they could gain access to the cockpit of an airliner carrying upwards of 400 innocent passengers. Now mind you, these innocents paid money for safe conduct of passage from India to where ever under the care custody and control of individuals to be properly certified in the regulations promulgated by the Indian DGCA. Well as we all know, these frauds are caught.
Who knows how many more dangerous uncertified fraudulent crewmembers there are out there. Does the Indian Government know who many illegal uncertified individuals are operating aircraft beyond the borders of India?
And you, Jetwins, think these disgusting pigs should be compensated
!?!?! How about the innocent public who's lives were placed in potential danger by such irresponsible behavior.
I have to tell you Jetwins, this goes way beyond childish impish behavior... as these culprits are criminals.
On the surface it appears (a) the Indian Government has no control of what goes within their own ranks; (b) Corruption is apparent all the way up within the higher ranks within the Indian Government; or (c) they, the government do have a pair of balls between the lot of them and prosecute all involved in this scam from the alleged pilots up to and including the DGCA itself. Any combination of the choice can apply.
The airlines have relied in the past to ensure that there is oversight within their own ranks. Well that system is not working. This is not just within aviation but all other industries where regulation apply as well.
The airlines themselves need to conduct an internal audit. They need to pay a visit to the DGCA to verify that all pilots amongst their own ranks are valid. Even the Insurers need to get involved concerning this matter. If life is lost at the hands of one of these illegals, then the insurance companies can walk away from the claim unscathed.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again... other countries need to take note and scrutiny as they have with other nations concerning safety of operations within their own airspace.
You have a group of arrogant people who did not follow the rules. Knowingly it would be an illegal act. These illegals bribed the DGCA so they could gain access to the cockpit of an airliner carrying upwards of 400 innocent passengers. Now mind you, these innocents paid money for safe conduct of passage from India to where ever under the care custody and control of individuals to be properly certified in the regulations promulgated by the Indian DGCA. Well as we all know, these frauds are caught.
Who knows how many more dangerous uncertified fraudulent crewmembers there are out there. Does the Indian Government know who many illegal uncertified individuals are operating aircraft beyond the borders of India?
And you, Jetwins, think these disgusting pigs should be compensated
!?!?! How about the innocent public who's lives were placed in potential danger by such irresponsible behavior. I have to tell you Jetwins, this goes way beyond childish impish behavior... as these culprits are criminals.
On the surface it appears (a) the Indian Government has no control of what goes within their own ranks; (b) Corruption is apparent all the way up within the higher ranks within the Indian Government; or (c) they, the government do have a pair of balls between the lot of them and prosecute all involved in this scam from the alleged pilots up to and including the DGCA itself. Any combination of the choice can apply.
The airlines have relied in the past to ensure that there is oversight within their own ranks. Well that system is not working. This is not just within aviation but all other industries where regulation apply as well.
The airlines themselves need to conduct an internal audit. They need to pay a visit to the DGCA to verify that all pilots amongst their own ranks are valid. Even the Insurers need to get involved concerning this matter. If life is lost at the hands of one of these illegals, then the insurance companies can walk away from the claim unscathed.
I've said this before, and I'll say it again... other countries need to take note and scrutiny as they have with other nations concerning safety of operations within their own airspace.
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From avindia ******** com/2011/03/read-this-dgca.html
Seven years ago, TEHELKA had revealed the shocking state of pilot training in India (Captain Peril, 18 December 2004). The year-long investigation established that norms for obtaining a flying licence are so blatantly flouted that an unlimited number of flying hours can be logged entirely on paper, the theory exam can be passed and the stringent medical requirements cleared without the actual candidate appearing for them.
A team of TEHELKA reporters (Kumar Baadal, Aman Khanna) was able to obtain a student pilot’s licence (SPL) after clearing the medical check-up but without appearing for the requisite oral examination or the cockpit test. More shockingly, beginning the process that culminates in the commercial pilot’s licence (CPL), TEHELKA was able to log in 10 flying hours without ever getting off the ground.
The CPL entitles the licence holder to immediately begin flying as a co-pilot. The investigations also established that the verification procedures can easily be circumvented and the licence can be issued to just about anyone.
Flying clubs in the country lie at the heart of this scandal. The team met the chief flying instructor of the Northern India Flying Club (NIFC), Patiala, on 21 November 2003. For a bribe, Captain SS Kang was willing to get an SPL issued after an ‘oral’ test, log 10 non-existent flying hours and get the CPL issued without the requisite flying hours through his contacts in the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA).
19/03/11 Tehelka.
Seven years ago, TEHELKA had revealed the shocking state of pilot training in India (Captain Peril, 18 December 2004). The year-long investigation established that norms for obtaining a flying licence are so blatantly flouted that an unlimited number of flying hours can be logged entirely on paper, the theory exam can be passed and the stringent medical requirements cleared without the actual candidate appearing for them.
A team of TEHELKA reporters (Kumar Baadal, Aman Khanna) was able to obtain a student pilot’s licence (SPL) after clearing the medical check-up but without appearing for the requisite oral examination or the cockpit test. More shockingly, beginning the process that culminates in the commercial pilot’s licence (CPL), TEHELKA was able to log in 10 flying hours without ever getting off the ground.
The CPL entitles the licence holder to immediately begin flying as a co-pilot. The investigations also established that the verification procedures can easily be circumvented and the licence can be issued to just about anyone.
Flying clubs in the country lie at the heart of this scandal. The team met the chief flying instructor of the Northern India Flying Club (NIFC), Patiala, on 21 November 2003. For a bribe, Captain SS Kang was willing to get an SPL issued after an ‘oral’ test, log 10 non-existent flying hours and get the CPL issued without the requisite flying hours through his contacts in the Directorate General of Civil Aviation (DGCA).
19/03/11 Tehelka.
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This is one of the worst kept secrets in indian aviation . I started my flying in india and finshed it in usa . Training standards are poor in indian flying schools and they are the training ground for this kind S#$t . Knowledge tests being fugded but the scariest thing is no student doing training in india ever almost ever fails a checkride ( which is final filter )
Thank god Indian flying schools take so much time and are so ****ty most indians tarinees go abroad.
To my western colleagues.. most indian pilots especially in the Private airlines have good standards but if we expect reform in indian aviation pressure has to come from ICAO, IATA etc..
By the way our airline had rejected quite a few expats with fuddy duddy ratings/hours with FAA and even JAR licenses....so the rest of the world is not as clean as u might think
Thank god Indian flying schools take so much time and are so ****ty most indians tarinees go abroad.
To my western colleagues.. most indian pilots especially in the Private airlines have good standards but if we expect reform in indian aviation pressure has to come from ICAO, IATA etc..
By the way our airline had rejected quite a few expats with fuddy duddy ratings/hours with FAA and even JAR licenses....so the rest of the world is not as clean as u might think
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I would have to disagree with you Jet_737ng regarding your comment about so-called fuddy duddy FAA or JAR ratings. Sounds more like sour grapes to me.
EASA along with membered states along with the FAA maintain rather high standards as far as records are concerned. The DGCA along with other foreign countries perform their own records checks with aviation authorities of airmen wishing to fly in their countries.
With that being said pilots perporting to have FAA or JAR certificate are not as apt to commit a fraud with a potential employer as perhaps a pilot from another country which has recently been in the news.
EASA along with membered states along with the FAA maintain rather high standards as far as records are concerned. The DGCA along with other foreign countries perform their own records checks with aviation authorities of airmen wishing to fly in their countries.
With that being said pilots perporting to have FAA or JAR certificate are not as apt to commit a fraud with a potential employer as perhaps a pilot from another country
which has recently been in the news.
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i heard of a mexican b777 captain with air india who faked his hours on the 777 as to get in... i
in korean air he was flying the 737. then he did a 777 on his own behalf but faked the hours to 500 as to get in...
if this is true? dont know 100% but then again it is a rumours network and air india can check on him..
too easy to fake logbooks and too many of those guys around, taking away the jobs of the honest pilots...
in korean air he was flying the 737. then he did a 777 on his own behalf but faked the hours to 500 as to get in...
if this is true? dont know 100% but then again it is a rumours network and air india can check on him..
too easy to fake logbooks and too many of those guys around, taking away the jobs of the honest pilots...
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Then there was Anthony Abrahams in Dubai 1991, trying to start his own airline based out of FUJ - F.27s. He used to walk around, almost everyday, in his uniform, even popping into Jules Bar, epaulettes and all, to have a pint. Claimed he used to fly for BCal, yet was lost in the cockpit of a Duchess. Conned lots of people but, thankfully, he never got airborne and he then tried again, I believe, with a freight operation into Pakistan - again failed. Nobody on here seems to know about this joker, which surprises me, but he was decalred bankrupt in the UK several years ago.
Cheers
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So I guess this all BS then.
Fake Swedish pilot Thomas Salme flies Air One jets for 13 years | Mail Online
Get Real. This stuff happens everywhere. To a greater extent in other parts of the world, but corruption is a global epidemic and has existed for as long as greed has. Europe is built on it. Get off your high horse.
Fake Swedish pilot Thomas Salme flies Air One jets for 13 years | Mail Online
Get Real. This stuff happens everywhere. To a greater extent in other parts of the world, but corruption is a global epidemic and has existed for as long as greed has. Europe is built on it. Get off your high horse.
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i heard of a mexican b777 captain with air india who faked his hours on the 777 as to get in... i
in korean air he was flying the 737. then he did a 777 on his own behalf but faked the hours to 500 as to get in...
if this is true? dont know 100% but then again it is a rumours network and air india can check on him..
in korean air he was flying the 737. then he did a 777 on his own behalf but faked the hours to 500 as to get in...
if this is true? dont know 100% but then again it is a rumours network and air india can check on him..
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tip of the iceberg or what ever you may want to call it....
I am super impressed with what ever DGCA is doing to clean up the system....they way i look at it ...its probably the revolution that we were waiting for....
DGCA screwed up big i agree....but the effort its taking to make up is an eye opener....i have stood in line in the hot sun outside dgca with 50 more people many times to fill forms etc......
The whole boom situation went bonkers ....every one made money , DGCA , flying schools india / phillipines get your cpl in 2 months in the 320 cockpit in 3 months, medical doctors class 2 , corrupt CFIs in india, RT examiners /agents , ground school instructors , bookstores, back to DGCA ...and now airlines charging 20k for an exam * 4000 candidates ...fake pilots ofcourse.
The only people who didnt make money were the ones in those lines.
You have to actually meet these people in person to believe the amount of attitude they have , they say anything and everything under the sun without realizing that one day they are going to be on national TV or jail.
Hats off to the entire team of DGCA to bring out this change , i cant believe that a government body is making this level of effort to clean up the system.Thats what you do when **** hits the roof!!!!!
I hope other departments like the police , banks , and so so many more learn a lesson and be ready to face similar situation......
finally i can consider paying tax !!!!
I am super impressed with what ever DGCA is doing to clean up the system....they way i look at it ...its probably the revolution that we were waiting for....
DGCA screwed up big i agree....but the effort its taking to make up is an eye opener....i have stood in line in the hot sun outside dgca with 50 more people many times to fill forms etc......
The whole boom situation went bonkers ....every one made money , DGCA , flying schools india / phillipines get your cpl in 2 months in the 320 cockpit in 3 months, medical doctors class 2 , corrupt CFIs in india, RT examiners /agents , ground school instructors , bookstores, back to DGCA ...and now airlines charging 20k for an exam * 4000 candidates ...fake pilots ofcourse.
The only people who didnt make money were the ones in those lines.
You have to actually meet these people in person to believe the amount of attitude they have , they say anything and everything under the sun without realizing that one day they are going to be on national TV or jail.
Hats off to the entire team of DGCA to bring out this change , i cant believe that a government body is making this level of effort to clean up the system.Thats what you do when **** hits the roof!!!!!
I hope other departments like the police , banks , and so so many more learn a lesson and be ready to face similar situation......
finally i can consider paying tax !!!!
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SpiceJet sacks 2 pilots for fudging flying hours
"Con-mander" - very catchy
NEW DELHI: The fake pilot racket is fast assuming worrying proportions. On Friday, low cost carrier SpiceJet sacked two pilots — captain Anuj Kumar and first officer (co-pilot) Amit Mundra – for fudging their flying hours to get licence to fly from the DGCA. Apart from this, the aviation regulator is close on the heels of fifth commander who allegedly faked exam mark sheets to become a commander.
"Following investigations into the fake flying license issue, SpiceJet has terminated the services of the two pilots with immediate effect. The pilots have been accused of misrepresenting their flying hours in order to obtain their license from Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)... The airline is committed to provide a safe travel without ever compromising the safety of our esteemed customers," a SpiceJet statement said.
These are the first reported cases of fudged flying hours to get licences. From February-end, the DGCA has found four co-pilots (two of IndiGo; one each from MDLR and AI) who could not pass the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) exam to get promoted as commander. They allegedly got fake mark sheets prepared and became commanders. Now a fifth such case has been detected but the con-mander's name and the airline is being kept in wraps to ensure he does not flee.
"Following investigations into the fake flying license issue, SpiceJet has terminated the services of the two pilots with immediate effect. The pilots have been accused of misrepresenting their flying hours in order to obtain their license from Director General of Civil Aviation (DGCA)... The airline is committed to provide a safe travel without ever compromising the safety of our esteemed customers," a SpiceJet statement said.
These are the first reported cases of fudged flying hours to get licences. From February-end, the DGCA has found four co-pilots (two of IndiGo; one each from MDLR and AI) who could not pass the airline transport pilot licence (ATPL) exam to get promoted as commander. They allegedly got fake mark sheets prepared and became commanders. Now a fifth such case has been detected but the con-mander's name and the airline is being kept in wraps to ensure he does not flee.