TSA - Pilots to be exempt from scanners & pat downs.

[vapilot2004]

Mr. Lucky,

Details are still sketchy and the TSA is keeping the cards close to their bosum, however it appears the new policy only applies to US airline flight deck crew. They have yet to confirm if internationally bound US crews will enjoy the same level of trust. Word of mouth rumor has it that the 'courtesy' could be extended to crew members of select non-US carriers as early as summer 2011.

PA-28: Agreed. Israel has that figured out.

[justanotherflyer]

Surely this increases the risk that the pilots will wrest control of the airplane?

[Piltdown Man]

A definite improvement, but one more step required - the reason to be airside. My company has a system available worldwide which will list the names of all operating crew. This last check will give a reason for those who need to be airside to be where they are and make it more difficult for them to be impersonated.

PM

[AnthonyGA]

Seems the imbeciles at the TSA have a few brain cells to put together amongst themselves after all. Maybe someone there was smart enough to realise, when pilots get to their place of work, I.E., the aircraft they have an array of weapons to choose from. Axe, etc., etc, tons of fuel and not to mention the aircraft itself.

Actually, no, this demonstrates the opposite: the TSA still doesn't know what it's doing.

For intrusive screening methods like this to work, they have to apply to everyone—otherwise the bad guys will simply impersonate whoever is exempt and avoid the screening that way. Or disgruntled formerly good guys will be "turned" by the bad guys.

If one follows the logic to which you allude above, then pilots should not be tested for drugs, since they could crash airplanes voluntarily while not intoxicated. The assumption that all pilots always have the noblest thoughts in mind is unfortunately a dangerous one. Just as doctors, lawyers, engineers, and persons of every other occupation can have sinister motives, so can pilots. And of course this applies to cabin crew, too.

However, since the TSA's Gestapo tactics really don't do anything to increase safety, anyway, exempting certain classes of people from them isn't going to make any practical difference.

[doubleu-anker]

All good stuff of course.

I was of the opinion the TSA checks were to relieve people of weapons (among other things) that make them a threat I.E., taking control of an aircraft. they are even presented with an axe to assist them should it be deemed necessary.

All pilots who have passed through screening are about to do just that. Take control of a potentially deadly weapon and a very effective weapon at that, as recent history has proven!!

[500N]

It has been alluded to in previous posts and I would like to highlight again
that looking at people / the person, particularly the eyes is one of the best
ways to detect someone.
.

[ishanb]

Profiling

Engage passengers in conversation while observing their eyes and body language. It doesn't much matter what is actually being discussed. Profiling is useful and accurate but needs to be taught; it is a learned skill. Having multiple layers of profiling, from when the passenger parks his/her car to when they join the security line works best. Profiling done right is quick, annoys few people (except those with evil intent) and violates no civil rights.

[doubleu-anker]

Profiling

Agreed. The crux is multi layered, profiling.

We all, could learn a lot from the Israels because if we don't, then the bad guys, will have us all running around like headless chickens.

[WestWind1950]

I see no problem with showing more then one ID, after all, you normally have, besides your crew badge, your pilots certificate and passport with you.... so what's the problem?

I agree that the security has gone overboard and that if a wants to find his way inside security areas, he will.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Westwind, I've no problem with carrying and presenting two forms of ID. However, in the past, visiting another airport for instance, I've been asked to show driving licence/pilot's licence/passport to confirm who I am.

They are asking me to use a form of ID that is easily copied - my pilot licence is just a few sheets of paper with my name on it - passport fraud is one of the biggest forms of fraud in the Europe- as is driving licence fraud.

What is the point of all the background and criminal record checks I need to go through to get an airside pass if I'm then asked to use a non-secure form of ID to validate my "secure ID"?

[jcjeant]

Hi,

Agreed. Israel has that figured out.

Profiling

Agreed. The crux is multi layered, profiling.

Profiling ???
Never will be applied in US of A's
Politically incorrect ... racism .. discrimination at play here

[AnthonyGA]

Engage passengers in conversation while observing their eyes and body language. It doesn't much matter what is actually being discussed.

Questioning can be productive, too. One person observes the passenger as he is questioned, while the other asks the questions. But the questions need not be random or unimportant.

"Deep" questioning can be used to discover who is telling the truth and who isn't. Ask the passenger where he is going. You ask the passenger a series of questions, each of which is based in part on the answers to the preceding questions. For example, if he says he's going to see his aunt, ask what his aunt does for a living. When he tells you her job, ask which company she works for. And so on. For each answer you get, ask a new question that requires more details about his trip. A person telling the truth will have no trouble answering any of the questions, and his answers will be consistent if the questions are repeated. But a person who is lying will eventually run out of memorized, scripted answers, and will have to make things up, at which point inconsistencies can easily be spotted. Best of all, the method need not be kept a secret, because there's no way to get past it. It works with just one passenger traveling alone, but it works even better with two people traveling together (provided that they are questioned separately).

[Tolka]

I was always under the impression that one of the reasons why pilots and cabin crew had to go through similar searches as passengers was that they could be forced, under duress, to carry weapons or other material airside for others to use and not because there were considered to be threats themselves. Consider a situation where a pilot's spouse and children were abducted by terrorists and were only to be released ih he/she brought banned items airside. All the security checks into the pilots background and all the IDs in the world would not prevent such a situation. Only searching them as they go through security would work. In fact such searches might protect pilots and crew from being used in this way. Any comments?

[500N]

With my comment re looking at someone's eye's, I meant from a distance,
as they are walking to the queue etc.

Anyone doing something they shouldn't be will at some point cast a look around
and a trained person looking for this will pick it up and can then initiate some of the other methods mentioned previously.

[chuks]

Unfortunately, cost always comes into this sort of thing, even though we have learned not to bring that fact up. We could have the very best security in the world if we wanted to pay for that. The cost in time and money might rule that out but at least the people in charge, if given some impulse from on high, could address some of the obvious faults in the present system.

As it is, it reads like a crowd of badge-happy dim-bulbs groping and harrassing innocent members of the travelling public. Of course we only read about the relatively few checks that go wrong, not about the millions that happen without incident, sort of the same way we only read about the relatively few accidents or incidents, since there is no news value in "Jumbo jet with 400 passengers on board lands safely, no one screaming in terror..."

I was once operating in the UK, just picking up some experience there as an FO on a regional airline, when I had a photo ID from one airport, the one I was temporarily based at, so that life was good, or so I thought. Then we flew to another UK airport, as one does, only to be told that no, that ID from A was no good at B! Uniform, pilot's licence, passport, other photo ID... No, no, no. Pure mindless BS, so that I could walk across the ramp from the aircraft, go through the sliding doors, but NOT turn around and go right back out again!

There was absolutely no thought given to some way to issue a transit ID, say, and no way to get the ID they wanted me to have, either. It was so that the security jobs-worths did not actually care about either security nor about how this was impeding the safe and efficient movement of passengers by air, what I thought the point of the whole exercise was.

No, to someone with a certain mindset, the whole point of an airport security checkpoint is to give them a job, one with some small amount of authority.

[PA-28-180]

" Never will be applied in US of A's
Politically incorrect ... racism .. discrimination at play here"

That's the point! This PC cr@p has gotten to the point that we are risking our freedoms and our lives! As stated earlier, Osama bin Laden must be laughing his @ss off wherever he's currently hiding....because he's certainly achieved what he set out to do.....namely, create fear and over the top security in the western world that terrorists can by-pass with ease.

I personally haven't flown commercial since the end of 2000 ......and I won't until 'common' sense returns to the world.

[protectthehornet]

don't be surprised if we do go to profiling. political ''correctness'' is now incorect.

[Two's in]

I was always under the impression that one of the reasons why pilots and cabin crew had to go through similar searches as passengers was that they could be forced, under duress, to carry weapons or other material airside for others to use and not because there were considered to be threats themselves. Consider a situation where a pilot's spouse and children were abducted by terrorists and were only to be released ih he/she brought banned items airside. All the security checks into the pilots background and all the IDs in the world would not prevent such a situation. Only searching them as they go through security would work. In fact such searches might protect pilots and crew from being used in this way. Any comments?

Tolka, congratulations for being the lone voice of reason here and thinking there may be more to this than knee-jerk media inspired hysteria.

The "proxy" bomb is a well tried and tested method of delivering a device using unwilling persons. They don't even have to put it on a specific aircraft, all they have to do is transfer it to another player on the airside of security.

Much easier to assume the TSA are clowns (they may be but the threat is real) than assess the real scope of the threat.

[MG23]

Originally Posted by AnthonyGA

Best of all, the method need not be kept a secret, because there's no way to get past it. It works with just one passenger traveling alone, but it works even better with two people traveling together (provided that they are questioned separately).

If the method is known -- and it's now very, very widely known by anyone who might want to get past it -- then it's essentially useless; any actual terrorists will practice until they have a high chance of getting through any questions thrown at them. In addition, psychopaths are extremely good liars to begin with and probably make up a far larger proportion of the potential recruits for a terrorist group than they do in the general population.

As for effective, I've been 'flagged' every time I've traveled from Israel, yet I'm doing absolutely nothing wrong. All these 'magic bullet' solutions to security turn out to be fundamentally flawed when they're actually tried and tested in the real world, where even a 1% false positive rate makes them a dismal failure.

Edit: and I agree with the earlier posts that this shows the TSA are not serious about security because bin Laden and his mates could just find a pilot to carry their gear through the security checks and hand it to them on the other side, willingly or otherwise (e.g. 'do it or we'll torture your family to death'). If these checks were actually necessary they'd have to be applied to everyone, or at least a random selection of everyone, regardless of background.

[Lord Spandex Masher]

Originally Posted by Tolka

Only searching them as they go through security would work. In fact such searches might protect pilots and crew from being used in this way. Any comments?

Yes, what are you going to do when the bad guys tell me to crash in to parliament, for instance?

You can put me through a scanner and grab my nuts as many times as you like but as I don't need to carry anything you won't find anything.