Ryanair flight hits 'turbulence'. 3 injured. Emergency landing
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Presumably if the pax had all had their seat belts on and not been headbutting the lockers as a result, the damage to all would have been less. It's surely time that wearing belts throughout the flight became mandatory.
Again, I don't see why this is a specific FR problem. I don't see their overhead lockers much fuller than anyone else's. Dumb pax with no belts on go pogoing on every airline.
Again, I don't see why this is a specific FR problem. I don't see their overhead lockers much fuller than anyone else's. Dumb pax with no belts on go pogoing on every airline.
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At my home airport and another few that I've travelled to in Asia I see that passengers on LCC all have their hand luggages checked for their dimensions and weight to make sure they meet the specifications set by the airline that they're traveling with before directing them to immigration. Any excess baggage or those that don't meet the standard would be put into the hold and passengers charged. Always see a lot of arguments between the authorities and the passengers because of this.
Do they do this in Europe? After all the space available in the overhead bins are the same but now you're having 180 passengers in an A320 for example when the typical number is 140?
Do they do this in Europe? After all the space available in the overhead bins are the same but now you're having 180 passengers in an A320 for example when the typical number is 140?
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...in Asia I see that passengers on LCC all have their hand luggages checked for their dimensions and weight ... Any excess baggage or those that don't meet the standard would be put into the hold and passengers charged. ... Do they do this in Europe?
Ryanair's model is of course the pathfinder in Europe and the question of trends in the amount (volume and weight) of 'hand-luggage' is something which all of the airlines have been constantly playing with in the last four years especially. This I think is the approximate period in which Ryanair has driven up the typical cost of a 15kg hold bag to the ridiculous, with at one time a second bag having to be within the original 15kg limit or incur an excess baggage charge. Other airlines have experimented constantly in the lee of what Ryanair is doing e.g. in 2008 and 2009 I believe Easyjet were essentially allowing any 'reasonable' cabin baggage, but then again they were not charging outrageously for hold bags. It indeed created some kind of 'reasonableness' at Easyjet for a period.
But depending on the airport, the constantly changing 'rules' and level of enforcement is clearly linked to overal profit making opportunity. Ryanair's main hub Stansted for example largely does not enforce weight limits after security. I regularly climb the steps with my 'in limit dimensions' bag weighing 15kg or more after buying magazines, maybe a book or two, water and worse from BAA who monopolise the entire shopping mall (I earn BAA Worldpoints on absolutely everything I buy from 3 kg of Books and magazines at WHSmith to 1.5kg of Water at Pret a Manger). BAA and therefore Ryanair are not going to wind that down in a hurry, now are they?
Ryanair have to take the credit and debit for what we see because THEY are the main actors in this constantly changing game. As we all know, they are now the biggest airline in Europe by far and with some 240, 189 seat, exact same model aircraft with generally the highest load factors too. They are the organisation who can best measure the trends and manipulate them. And if that story of bags piled on free seats is true, that is a particularly worrying trend that can only be linked to very bad shortcuts by cabin crew too-scared to delay the flight.
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Money could be made in providing a service that people would not mind paying for. I'd gladly kiss my bags goodbye a day before I travel, seeing them go to a local collection agency, and onto whatever airport's security. That way, being gouged for money wouldn't be so painful.
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So what do I do if all the above is enacted?
I'm a documentary cameraman. I specialise in conflicts and complex areas. I'm en route, now, from Harare to Joburg to Dubai to Delhi to Kabul.
My clients no longer pay for a C class ticket, so I'll be turning right when I board. Just about everyone I know in Southern Africa who travels by air has had something lost, stolen, tampered with or delayed in Joburg.
DXB isn't bad, in my experience, though there can be delays in luggage there, too.
Delhi is a disaster. Especially connecting luggage between airlines. EK to IA, in this case for the last leg into Kabul.
So, I'm carrying 15kgs of hand luggage - a broadcast camera kit, two spare batteries (can't carry those in the hold, obviously). charger, radio microphones, tapes. A toothbrush and a book. Basically - what I need so I can work for my client even if the airline sends my bags to Bogota.
I get the concerns, I really do. I'm SLF, but I fly little planes and I have a lot of mates who fly heavies.
But I read a thread like this one - or the UPS DXB crash thread - and I think, one day quite soon I simply won't be able to operate. My Lithium batteries will be banned, my camera will have to go in the hold (and so won't turn up one gig in five), my insurance policy (which is only valid if I keep the camera with me at all times, and still costs GBP1200 for three weeks cover in Afghanistan) will be un-affordable - and invalidated.
My clients will simply hire local lads, with handicams, who don't have to fly to get to work, and that'll be that for international current affairs camera operators.
Guess I'll just park up in the bar with all the FE's and FO's who will also lose/have lost their jobs in this brave new aviation world....
Mine's a cold beer.
My clients no longer pay for a C class ticket, so I'll be turning right when I board. Just about everyone I know in Southern Africa who travels by air has had something lost, stolen, tampered with or delayed in Joburg.
DXB isn't bad, in my experience, though there can be delays in luggage there, too.
Delhi is a disaster. Especially connecting luggage between airlines. EK to IA, in this case for the last leg into Kabul.
So, I'm carrying 15kgs of hand luggage - a broadcast camera kit, two spare batteries (can't carry those in the hold, obviously). charger, radio microphones, tapes. A toothbrush and a book. Basically - what I need so I can work for my client even if the airline sends my bags to Bogota.
I get the concerns, I really do. I'm SLF, but I fly little planes and I have a lot of mates who fly heavies.
But I read a thread like this one - or the UPS DXB crash thread - and I think, one day quite soon I simply won't be able to operate. My Lithium batteries will be banned, my camera will have to go in the hold (and so won't turn up one gig in five), my insurance policy (which is only valid if I keep the camera with me at all times, and still costs GBP1200 for three weeks cover in Afghanistan) will be un-affordable - and invalidated.
My clients will simply hire local lads, with handicams, who don't have to fly to get to work, and that'll be that for international current affairs camera operators.
Guess I'll just park up in the bar with all the FE's and FO's who will also lose/have lost their jobs in this brave new aviation world....
Mine's a cold beer.
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I Quote my recent post:
There is now so much hand baggage on Ryanair (with overpriced empty baggage holds) that on our last flight (gerona-bournemouth) the only empty row of seats had at least a dozen bags (unsecured) piled on the seats as the overhead bins were full!
Report it to the CAA.
(thanks for that comment Avaman)
Or the IAA
(thanks likewise to Viscount for his)
Alas I've tried both...
The following was sent to the CAA and the IAA following occupancy of emergency exit rows, the briefing of passengers occupying those rows and the exit handle cover and light being adrift...
Dear IAA (copied to the CAA)
Over the last year or so we have used Ryanair about a dozen times, mainly on the Stansted/Gerona and Bournemouth/Gerona routes.
I would wish to comment on the safety issues that I feel need to be addressed.
In simple terms these concerns are can be explained by quoting from Ryanair Cabin Crew (Spanish origin) on the Gerona route.
No you can’t hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, you’re in an emergency exit row...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
The emergency exit handle and lights will be fixed soon, no I don’t know what the Boeing MEL is. The Captain is too busy to ask him…
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt,( who took twenty minutes to walk 50M to the aircraft) , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And I didn't notice their ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing ...
The reason for finally contacting you was that these malpractices have come to a head with the last two items on my list of quotes. Totally unfit passengers were allowed to occupy the emergency exit row. They very old and the lady needed an extension seatbelt. They had pre-boarded and went for the row with the most room, that is the emergency exit row. This totally unacceptable situation was brought to the attention of the cabin crew prior to departure. They did nothing about it. The couple were part of a family and with lots of seat changing during the flight the two grandparents had the 10 year old grandson next to them in the emergency exit row for landing. This again was brought to the attention of the cabin crew and Captain on disembarkation. They were totally dismissive of our concerns.
I await with interest your reply.
The response from the CAA was that even though these services arrived/departed from UK airfields they did not have any jurisdiction over them. The IAA quite simply stated that they were very happy that all regulations were complied with on Ryanair services.
As for us, we now minimise any safety problems (for us) by sitting in the last row adjacent to the rear exits and keep our seat belts fastened at all times!!
There is now so much hand baggage on Ryanair (with overpriced empty baggage holds) that on our last flight (gerona-bournemouth) the only empty row of seats had at least a dozen bags (unsecured) piled on the seats as the overhead bins were full!
Report it to the CAA.
(thanks for that comment Avaman)
Or the IAA
(thanks likewise to Viscount for his)
Alas I've tried both...
The following was sent to the CAA and the IAA following occupancy of emergency exit rows, the briefing of passengers occupying those rows and the exit handle cover and light being adrift...
Dear IAA (copied to the CAA)
Over the last year or so we have used Ryanair about a dozen times, mainly on the Stansted/Gerona and Bournemouth/Gerona routes.
I would wish to comment on the safety issues that I feel need to be addressed.
In simple terms these concerns are can be explained by quoting from Ryanair Cabin Crew (Spanish origin) on the Gerona route.
No you can’t hold onto that paperback for take off, it must go in the overhead locker, you’re in an emergency exit row...
I think my English is good and I don't think it would help for those of you who do not understand what I am saying if I slowed down a little...
You may in your airline brief all those seated in emergency exit rows prior to every departure, we would brief you about opening the exit only if we had an emergency...
The emergency exit handle and lights will be fixed soon, no I don’t know what the Boeing MEL is. The Captain is too busy to ask him…
I don't think that all pre departure PA,s should be safety related, lots of passengers are interested in scratch cards...
No I am not concerned that the eighty year old couple, her with an extension seat belt,( who took twenty minutes to walk 50M to the aircraft) , having been pre-boarded, are seated in an emergency exit row...
And I didn't notice their ten year old grandson seated next to them on landing ...
The reason for finally contacting you was that these malpractices have come to a head with the last two items on my list of quotes. Totally unfit passengers were allowed to occupy the emergency exit row. They very old and the lady needed an extension seatbelt. They had pre-boarded and went for the row with the most room, that is the emergency exit row. This totally unacceptable situation was brought to the attention of the cabin crew prior to departure. They did nothing about it. The couple were part of a family and with lots of seat changing during the flight the two grandparents had the 10 year old grandson next to them in the emergency exit row for landing. This again was brought to the attention of the cabin crew and Captain on disembarkation. They were totally dismissive of our concerns.
I await with interest your reply.
The response from the CAA was that even though these services arrived/departed from UK airfields they did not have any jurisdiction over them. The IAA quite simply stated that they were very happy that all regulations were complied with on Ryanair services.
As for us, we now minimise any safety problems (for us) by sitting in the last row adjacent to the rear exits and keep our seat belts fastened at all times!!
Last edited by woodpecker; 11th Sep 2010 at 17:20.
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Is there a O/H locker load limit for the 73? Surely there has to be? An ancient memory, the Dash8 had a specified locker weight limit(it varied between models,and I cant remember the actual figures), which was drilled into both flight and cabin crew,.
Seems to me, purely as an observation, that a a few of these rather inconvenient LIMITATIONS are disappearing out of Op's manuals, and therefore SOP's, so the guys and gals in the trenches really don't have any guidelines on what really should be, and I mean by design load etc, allowed to be stuffed into those O/heads. Something is gunna break sooner or later
Seems to me, purely as an observation, that a a few of these rather inconvenient LIMITATIONS are disappearing out of Op's manuals, and therefore SOP's, so the guys and gals in the trenches really don't have any guidelines on what really should be, and I mean by design load etc, allowed to be stuffed into those O/heads. Something is gunna break sooner or later
It's surely time that wearing belts throughout the flight became mandatory.
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Slip and turn, from an insurance point of view the event is to be expected unless it was from negligence or intentional. Best case you have a handful of injuries, worst case a complete loss. In severe turbulence you'll get people injured in any aircraft not just a Ryanair one. Other than media interest and the threads headline does the fact that it was a Ryanair flight make the event any more relevant or spectacular?
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Originally Posted by Sober Lark
Slip and turn, from an insurance point of view the event is to be expected unless it was from negligence or intentional.
A hedge fund manager, a bookie, or an airline might see it with a slightly different spin.
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Yes, a bookie would have a different spin but bookies don't insure. To insure against the happening of an event the event must be entirely fortuitous as far as the insured is concerned. Aviation PAX hull loss is low in frequency but a high in severity loss. It is low frequency because of expertise and lessons learnt from the past. Insurers (or those who self insure) look back at the relative frequency with which the event in question occurred in the past and assuming no change in the nature of the event it is reasonable to assume that this historical estimate will hold good for the future. What happened is not a Ryanair thing but applies to all in aviation. The outcome in this case was acceptable.
Last edited by Sober Lark; 11th Sep 2010 at 22:27.
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Do you have unlimited expense accounts?
The reason people have these carryons is that your industry is leaky. Baggage losses are now above 1%. Take a business return every week, and you will need to replace your suits once a year.
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At the risk of being charged with heresy and forgetting the baggage issue for a moment: from a pilot's point of view I wonder if their wx radar was serviceable, ON and tilted slightly down to see cells building below them. It may be obvious but these things are oft forgot by the unwary when flying 'vmc on top'.