Airblue down near Islamabad
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Airblue down near Islamabad
PJ2
Indeed, why does ICAO not suspend Pakistan for failure to provide air investigation report accordingly?
How long will this go on before ICAO actions?
Or is the process too complicated?
I'd believe transparency is lacking on the part of Pakistan CAA, where the above case is concerned.
Indeed, why does ICAO not suspend Pakistan for failure to provide air investigation report accordingly?
How long will this go on before ICAO actions? Or is the process too complicated?I'd believe transparency is lacking on the part of Pakistan CAA, where the above case is concerned.
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I would hazard the guess that as with any UN entity the ICAO is crippled by its elaborate bureaucracy.... how often does the ICAO intervene in these issues, how often do they ever respond to current events?
...how often do they ever respond to current events?
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Blacklisting is effective as it goes directly to the bottom line.
Last edited by mm43; 17th Oct 2010 at 23:52.
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Airblue plane crash report to be submitted on 6th
KARACHI: The investigation into the Airblue plane crash that killed all 152 people onboard is complete and a final copy will be submitted to the authorities by March 6, 2011, an official in the inquiry team said on Tuesday.
“I can’t tell you the reasons behind the accident, but it has been established that the aircraft was absolutely fit for flying,” he said, requesting anonymity. Airblue’s Airbus-321 crashed on July 28 into Margalla Hills near Islamabad. It was Pakistan’s worst aircraft accident involving a private carrier.
The official said that a key meeting is being held in Karachi on Wednesday (today) to finalise the report. “Only the formatting is left and grammatical corrections need to be made.” Report into the crash will be submitted to Acting Director General of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Riazul Haq, he said. “He will then send it to the Ministry of Defence, which has the prerogative to make it public.”
The investigators have looked into every aspect including the ‘absurdities’ like the plane being brought down by a rocket, sabotage and possible pilot’s fatigue because of his praying the whole night before the accident, he said.
The probe team will also suggest authorities to hold a press conference to ensure that the report is transparent and remaining concerns are addressed, he said. It remains unclear whether the government will make the findings public or withhold certain points as a matter of national interest, which has been the case with previous aircraft accident investigations.
The European aircraft manufacturer Airbus had already said that nothing was wrong with the plane. This leaves the pilots, the airline or the flight controllers to be blamed. The enquiry team lacked any independent experts and was headed by officials of the CAA, a party in the case.
“I can’t tell you the reasons behind the accident, but it has been established that the aircraft was absolutely fit for flying,” he said, requesting anonymity. Airblue’s Airbus-321 crashed on July 28 into Margalla Hills near Islamabad. It was Pakistan’s worst aircraft accident involving a private carrier.
The official said that a key meeting is being held in Karachi on Wednesday (today) to finalise the report. “Only the formatting is left and grammatical corrections need to be made.” Report into the crash will be submitted to Acting Director General of Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) Riazul Haq, he said. “He will then send it to the Ministry of Defence, which has the prerogative to make it public.”
The investigators have looked into every aspect including the ‘absurdities’ like the plane being brought down by a rocket, sabotage and possible pilot’s fatigue because of his praying the whole night before the accident, he said.
The probe team will also suggest authorities to hold a press conference to ensure that the report is transparent and remaining concerns are addressed, he said. It remains unclear whether the government will make the findings public or withhold certain points as a matter of national interest, which has been the case with previous aircraft accident investigations.
The European aircraft manufacturer Airbus had already said that nothing was wrong with the plane. This leaves the pilots, the airline or the flight controllers to be blamed. The enquiry team lacked any independent experts and was headed by officials of the CAA, a party in the case.
Apparently, the report has been submitted.
Unfortunately, it looks like we wont be finding out the truth anytime soon and even the media has lost interest in it.
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It is all very strange as to why they won't make their findings public. I came across an article a couple of days back and can't seem to remember where (but will look again). The general gist of the story in that article was that 'apparently' somebody involved closely in the investigation had anonymously disclosed that pilot and atc error were to blame for the accident. The pilot was already flying off-course as we all know but the controller who noticed he was doing this delayed his call as he was busy with another take-off and thought he had time to deal with this before giving his attention to the airblue flight. If the reasons were along these lines or similar, it is a shame that such a huge loss was sustained due to such small negligence. Why Pakistan's CAA has such a policy of not giving closure to all those who will have been waiting for it is beyond me. I hope somebody changes their mind and does the right thing.
The details above may already have been discussed but I haven't read the rest of this thread and just came across it today.
The details above may already have been discussed but I haven't read the rest of this thread and just came across it today.
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Come on, Pakistan. Do something.
If this report is kept private, some legal action should be taken by the authorities who permit Airblue to operate into their airspace, for example the CAA. This suggestion may result in exoneration of the Pakistani airline. Or otherwise. No information is unacceptable, and is a typical example of an action of a corrupt country, whose authorities choose to ignore the modi operandi of civilised nations.
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Airblue
"and is a typical example of an action of a corrupt country, whose authorities choose to ignore the modi operandi of civilised nations"
You 'civilised' people make laugh...
You 'civilised' people make laugh...
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well, its not surprising at all. CAA has never published a complete report.
@BGG
What I have heard from my personal sources is similar. The reason for the distraction is claimed to be a NATO plane (a C-130 I think) that was being handled at that time.
Its understandable why they are trying to hide this. Anything and everything related to US and/NATO is not received positively in the public. Also since air traffic is being handled by the airforce, they don't want to look bad either.
But even if we are to accept this, the question as to why the pilot made the error in the first place does not get answered.
Apparently, all questions have been answered in the report and different aspects have been examined. The CAA will (and does) learn the lessons and make the necessary modifications in procedures (if any) but people won't be told these are being made because of this crash. But the report itself is not made public..well at least not in its entirety.
The only way this can be made public is if the media or one of the political parties create an issue out of it. But even that looks unlikely given Airblue is owned by a member of the opposition party.
@BGG
What I have heard from my personal sources is similar. The reason for the distraction is claimed to be a NATO plane (a C-130 I think) that was being handled at that time.
Its understandable why they are trying to hide this. Anything and everything related to US and/NATO is not received positively in the public. Also since air traffic is being handled by the airforce, they don't want to look bad either.
But even if we are to accept this, the question as to why the pilot made the error in the first place does not get answered.
Apparently, all questions have been answered in the report and different aspects have been examined. The CAA will (and does) learn the lessons and make the necessary modifications in procedures (if any) but people won't be told these are being made because of this crash. But the report itself is not made public..well at least not in its entirety.
The only way this can be made public is if the media or one of the political parties create an issue out of it. But even that looks unlikely given Airblue is owned by a member of the opposition party.
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when 12 is in use, they dont allow traffic to depart until the aircraft on approach lands. think about it, the runway in use is 12 and the arriving traffic is on the ILS on 30. your asking for a collision here if you allow a departure while and aircraft is on final.
its just a theory since no story is complete without either a US or Indian hand involved.
its just a theory since no story is complete without either a US or Indian hand involved.
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patthecat
Civilized or uncivilized nations. The truth should be told so that people stop rumour-mongering the wrong way and secondly for learning purpose so that whatever error by pilot or control tower may not be repeated. This is purely for safety purpose.
If on the other hand Pakistan as country hides this error then she should be expelt from CAA and ICAO membership. And I am sure they will learn the hard way, if this was done.
about the untold lies.
Civilized or uncivilized nations. The truth should be told so that people stop rumour-mongering the wrong way and secondly for learning purpose so that whatever error by pilot or control tower may not be repeated. This is purely for safety purpose.
If on the other hand Pakistan as country hides this error then she should be expelt from CAA and ICAO membership. And I am sure they will learn the hard way, if this was done.
about the untold lies.
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Penalties
Flyawaybird: I agree completely, but as others have said, it won't happen due to politics, both national & international.
some clarity over the squabbles that break out over this would be helpful. Issues like the failure to report are cultural issues, not to be confused with racial or national issues. The Cork crash recently shows that dodgy cultures exist in Europe as well here in this case.
any culture - company, national, political etc - shold be hit in its wallet or it will just continue.
Chances of that actually hapenning? Answers on a postcard.........IE None.
some clarity over the squabbles that break out over this would be helpful. Issues like the failure to report are cultural issues, not to be confused with racial or national issues. The Cork crash recently shows that dodgy cultures exist in Europe as well here in this case.
any culture - company, national, political etc - shold be hit in its wallet or it will just continue.
Chances of that actually hapenning? Answers on a postcard.........IE None.
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Cuban9:
I think you are comparing apples with oranges. The Irish are conducting an open, honest, and thorough investigation.
The Cork crash recently shows that dodgy cultures exist in Europe as well here in this case.
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we all know whats going on so why do we always have to wait for an open, honest and thorough investigation following accidents.
Why don't we stand up and be counted prior to the accidents?
Aviation is slowly turning rotten at the core.
Why don't we stand up and be counted prior to the accidents?
Aviation is slowly turning rotten at the core.
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Airblue crash: PHC issues notices to airline, govt and CAA
PESHAWAR:
A two-member bench of the Peshawar High Court (PHC) has issued notices to Airblue airline, the federal government and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to explain their positions in a writ petition filed by family members of the victims of the fatal crash of an Airblue plane in Islamabad last year.
Pakistan Muslim League – Quaid (PML-Q) MNA Marvi Memon and family members of the air crash victims prayed that the PHC ground all domestic and international flights of Airblue, in public interest, till the findings of an independent board of inquiry are made public and a definite declaration is made that the aircraft are safe to fly.
On Tuesday, the petitioners’ lawyer Omer Farouk Adam said that the petitioners first wanted interim relief in the case. However, the chief justice observed for interim relief, the hearing of all respondents was necessary before passing an order. The bench adjourned the hearing till April 19.
Published in The Express Tribune, March 23rd, 2011.
Let's hope they succeed and end up forcing the CAA to release the investigation report.
PESHAWAR:
A two-member bench of the Peshawar High Court (PHC) has issued notices to Airblue airline, the federal government and the Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) to explain their positions in a writ petition filed by family members of the victims of the fatal crash of an Airblue plane in Islamabad last year.
Pakistan Muslim League – Quaid (PML-Q) MNA Marvi Memon and family members of the air crash victims prayed that the PHC ground all domestic and international flights of Airblue, in public interest, till the findings of an independent board of inquiry are made public and a definite declaration is made that the aircraft are safe to fly.
On Tuesday, the petitioners’ lawyer Omer Farouk Adam said that the petitioners first wanted interim relief in the case. However, the chief justice observed for interim relief, the hearing of all respondents was necessary before passing an order. The bench adjourned the hearing till April 19.
Published in The Express Tribune, March 23rd, 2011.
Let's hope they succeed and end up forcing the CAA to release the investigation report.
Final Report issued.
Thanks, wozzo & Machdiamond! - a copy-paste typo.
Also, "comments" from the NTSB etc. Available on the Pakistan CAA site.
Thanks, wozzo & Machdiamond! - a copy-paste typo.
Also, "comments" from the NTSB etc. Available on the Pakistan CAA site.
Last edited by Jetdriver; 6th Feb 2013 at 21:08.
