Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Flight Deck Forums > Rumours & News
Reload this Page >

Air India IX-212 just 2 minutes from crashing into sea !

Rumours & News Reporting Points that may affect our jobs or lives as professional pilots. Also, items that may be of interest to professional pilots.

Air India IX-212 just 2 minutes from crashing into sea !

Old 3rd Jun 2010, 20:17
  #1 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: south pole
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Air India IX-212 just 2 minutes from crashing into sea !

Dubai flight was just 2 minutes from crashing into sea - India - The Times of India

some excerpts from the article ..

MUMBAI: It was disaster averted by less than two minutes.

Initial investigations have revealed that the May 26 Air India Express Dubai-Pune flight IX-212 was less than two minutes away from plunging into the Arabian Sea. It had plummeted dangerously from an altitude of 37,000 feet when its commander was away from the cockpit, in the washroom, leaving the first officer to man the controls. The aircraft's nose was down to a minus-23-degree angle because of which its descent rate increased rapidly and went up to 21,000 feet per minute even as the overspeed warning blared loudly in the cockpit.

....

....

The incident puts a huge question mark on the training given by Air India Express, especially to its first officers. The first officer had 1,000 hours of flying experience on the Boeing 737 aircraft which, say aviation safety experts, is quite adequate to handle a situation like this.

The Directorate-General of Civil Aviation (DGCA) is investigating the incident. "The aircraft plunged at speeds beyond its maximum limit. The recovery would have stressed the structure abnormally. This would require special investigations to be carried out on the aircraft after landing," said an air safety expert. It was not known whether the aircraft was grounded following this incident.


alphabravocharlie1 is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2010, 20:24
  #2 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: FUBAR
Posts: 3,349
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
So, on the one hand they are quoting the wonderful Indian F/O trying to save the day whilst the Capt pressed on regardless, and now we have the Indian F/O who with 1000hr couldn't even control the aircraft in pitch.

Methinks the Indian media are almost as credible as the British.
captplaystation is offline  
Old 3rd Jun 2010, 21:02
  #3 (permalink)  
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: south pole
Posts: 82
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Clarification from Air India on flight IX-212

Some section of the media has reported of an incident of Air India Express flight IX-212 of May 26, 2010. In this connection we would like to clarify as under :

Air India Express flight IX-212 of May 26, 2010 from Dubai to Pune, during flight, lost some height (not 15,000 ft. as reported). There are no reports of any injuries to passengers and crew. The pilots have been de-rostered to enable them to participate in the enquiry. The matter is being investigated.


AirIndia - Air India Express Flight of IX-212 of 26th may
alphabravocharlie1 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 02:06
  #4 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Gone from the FL sun to the desert Oasis
Age: 60
Posts: 199
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
This combined with the recent crash at Mangalore, should be a real eye opener for some people.
Sleeping Freight Dog is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 02:43
  #5 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Thailand
Posts: 942
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I'm quite pleased now that my contract with them, via an agency last summer, has simply been ignored and I never got the job. I'm still waiting for my 1000 in out of pocket expenses and the 300 I wasted on the Indian visa. I'd rather be sitting on the beach, almost penniless, than up there with them.
rubik101 is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 03:53
  #6 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Bangalore, India
Posts: 5
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sections of the indian media have been involved in conducting a systematic campaign against the National Carrier Air india.

This piece of yellow journalism must be seen in this context.

The Times group is leading this activity.
FLYCOUGAR is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 05:32
  #7 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Sleeping Freight Dog: No matter what is written or exposed some elements will deny that water is wet if that what it takes to justify a belief. You're so right, but people will see only what they want to see.

Times of India journalism is fraught with sensationalism and poor reporting, but if one has the intelligence and humilty to see the underlying tone and theme of the reporting then this is not a completely bad thing.

At long last it appears a minuscule amount of the corruption, poor training and pathetic standards at AI are being uncovered. What's the worst thing that could happen? Pilots receiving fair and proper training to the standards they are entitled to? Expat contracts offered in an open and honest & transparent means? The best people are offered the best jobs? Aviation becomes safer? Pilots become more professional? OH NO! Heaven forbid the career of pilot can be linked to the word professional once again.

Personally, I have been shouted down by present Indian airline pilots and children (175-250 hr CPL holders without an ounce of commercial experience, knowledge, education or airline qualification) on the Sth Asia and Far East Forum for a long time for screaming about the goings on at AI. These kids have a fresh CPL and a God-like complex the Indian aviation is the be all and end all, and that what I what I witnessed first hand didn't go on. (Refer to previous posts.....)

And still some try to justify this rubbish by blaming the expat. Short sighted xenophobia, as rampant as corruption in India.

OPEN YOUR EYES!
Focus on the SYSTEM
TopTup is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 06:22
  #8 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2004
Location: negative RAIM.....
Posts: 329
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1000 hrs TT is deemed "highly experienced"! Let alone when someone with 175-250 hrs TT believes they are OWED a job flying a jet transport. So, with 1000 hrs TT this pilot may have had actually how much hands on IF stick time? How many actual t/o's and landings?

Combine that with [criminally] negligent training standards, etc, etc (all been said before) and therein lies your answer.

I agree re the EgypAir 767 crash. I commented on it previously by way of asking whether or not the investigation will be as transparent as we hope. In EgyptAir the national carrier's regulatory body came up with one finding while the US NTSB came up with another.

Someone asked on a previous thread what could possibly be the DGCA's reason for even wanting to attempt a coverup. Well, in my opinion it's the same answer as per any other agency or person in any part of the world: $$$$$$ Pure and utter greed borne from corruption that is accepted as a natural part of doing business. Now, apart from utter greed, what about the fact that the massive levels of corruption, back-hand deals, etc, etc ever get exposed? I think the reasons WHY they would want to hide such issues are clear.

Last edited by TopTup; 4th Jun 2010 at 08:40.
TopTup is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 07:36
  #9 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Europe
Age: 78
Posts: 48
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
The Egyptair 990 case is quite clear, based on the investigation conducted by NTSB. Its conclusion was worded in a politically-correct fashion, to retain US Egypt friendship and not clearly state the reasons for the relief FO suicidal actions.
This fact was covered up by ECAA and Egypt government, who dispute the logic of cause and effect. Culture in certain places seems more deeply entrenched than logic, this can be observed daily.
opherben is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 10:43
  #10 (permalink)  
The Reverend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Nothing has changed in Air India. During my 747 conversion in Seattle 1978, one of our Boeing trainers was called away to Bombay to testify in a law suit against Boeing by Air India. Before he left he told us that it involved the Captain whom Boeing refused to certify on the 747 but who got checked out consequently in house, by Air India.

Air India Flight 855 was a scheduled passenger flight that crashed during the evening of 1 January 1978 about 3 km (1.9 mi) off the coast of Bandra, Bombay (now Mumbai), India. All 213 lives on board were lost. The crash is believed to have been caused by the Captain becoming spatially disoriented after the failure of one of the flight instruments in the cockpit.

The aircraft involved was a Boeing 747-237B, registration VT-EBD, named the "Emperor Ashoka". It was the first 747 delivered to Air India. When it was delivered in April 1971, Air India had proclaimed it as the "747th wonder of the world", and in keeping with their Maharaja motif, used the tagline "Your Palace in the Sky" to describe this new aircraft with a detailed external paint scheme and interesting interior design.

The departure was from Bombay's Sahar Airport, (now called Chhatrapati Shivaji International Airport). The plane's destination was Dubai International Airport in Dubai, with Captain Madan L. Kukar as the Commander.
Approximately one minute after takeoff from runway 27 the pilot made a scheduled right turn while over the Arabian Sea, after which the aircraft briefly returned to a normal level position. Soon the plane began rolling to the left, and never regained level flight.
The cockpit voice recorder recovered from the wreckage revealed the Captain made a verbal comment about his Attitude Indicator (AI) having "toppled", meaning that it was still showing the aircraft in a right bank. The First Officer, whose presumably functional AI was now showing a left bank, said that his AI was also toppled, but there is some belief that the Captain mistakenly took this to mean that both primary AIs were indicating a right bank. It was after sunset and the aircraft was flying over a dark Arabian Sea, leaving the aircrew unable to visually cross-check their AI instrument readings with the actual horizon outside the cockpit windows.
The 747 had a third backup AI in the center instrument panel between the two pilots, and the transcripts of the cockpit conversation show that the Flight Engineer may have been attempting to direct the Captain's attention to that third AI, or perhaps to another instrument called the Turn and Bank Indicator, just five seconds before the plane impacted the sea.
The Captain's mistaken perception of the aircraft situation resulted in his using the flight controls to add more left bank and left rudder, causing the aircraft to rapidly lose altitude. Just 101 seconds after leaving the runway the jet hit the Arabian Sea at an estimated 35 degree nose-down angle. There were no survivors among the 190 passengers and 23 crew members.

The partially recovered wreckage revealed no evidence of explosion, fire, or any electrical or mechanical failure, and an initial theory of sabotage was ruled out.
The investigation concluded that the probable cause was "due to the irrational control inputs by the captain following complete unawareness of the attitude as his AI had malfunctioned. The crew failed to gain control based on the other flight instruments."
U.S. Federal District Judge James M. Fitzgerald, in a 139-page decision issued 1 November 1985, rejected charges of negligence against the Boeing Company, Lear Siegler Inc, and the Collins Division of Rockwell International Corporation in a suit related to the crash
HotDog is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 12:24
  #11 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Jo'burg
Posts: 33
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
21000 feet per minute... who writes this stuff!?
johan_jnb is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 15:03
  #12 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2006
Location: US
Posts: 2,205
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
johan jnb - 21000 feet per minute... who writes this stuff!?



Pitch attitude x mach = rate of descent(approximately)

Reports says pitch attitude was as low as -23, and the a/c maximum speed was exceeded. Using the rule of thumb above a mach of .91 would be approximately 21,000' FPM so it's seems to be a reasonable number.

Personally I didn't enjoy descent rates above 20,000' - 25,000' FPM but everyone's tolerances are different.
misd-agin is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 15:43
  #13 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: Dubai - sand land.
Age: 54
Posts: 2,831
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by willfly380
HOTDOG ..very poor taste to put the late skipper's name... what happened..he gave u a hard time when you were a FE on the 707s .
U failed to mention the contributory factors about the ashoka crash.. but anyways..its become a habit of us all to blame the pilot straight away , whatever the nationality.
sit by the pool , the beach,the garden..but pls dont criticise others.. u just never know when it will be you nxt .
What nonsense willfly380 - the name of the flight of that particular captain has been in the public domain for years. After all we're talking about an accident that happened 32 years ago and the investigation is long done and dusted..

Besides - sounds like you're one of the new generation wannabes with your annoying use of 'text talk' Try becoming literate - it may just help you to get that 380 job one day
White Knight is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 15:51
  #14 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: Newcastle
Age: 53
Posts: 613
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
The aircraft's nose was down to a minus-23-degree angle because of which its descent rate increased rapidly and went up to 21,000 feet per minute even as the overspeed warning blared loudly in the cockpit.
& then

"On entering the cockpit, he was shocked when he saw the Primary Flight Display, which displays information on altitude, vertical speed (in this case rate of descent) and the air speed. It showed the aircraft's nose was down by minus 23 degrees
I know these new fangled jets are comfy, but I reckon he may have had a tadge inclination he was "23" degress nose down before he got there!!!
MATELO is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 17:17
  #15 (permalink)  
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
 
Join Date: Mar 2000
Location: UK
Posts: 18,579
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by matelo
but I reckon he may have had a tadge inclination he was "23" degress nose down before he got there!
- yup - it would not have taken him long to get from the toilet door to the flight deck door at that angle, and I bet he couldn't even close the toilet door
BOAC is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 17:34
  #16 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: N571
Posts: 137
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Good one BOAC!
leftseatview is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 18:46
  #17 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2000
Location: Montgomery, NY, USA
Posts: 136
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
yup - it would not have taken him long to get from the toilet door to the flight deck door at that angle, and I bet he couldn't even close the toilet door
Perhaps the fact that he probably had to almost piss up into the toilet may have given a hint to hurry back to the office.
patrickal is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 22:01
  #18 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Location: New Forest
Posts: 143
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Cool 21,000 fpm

"21000 feet per minute... who writes this stuff!? " (Johan JNB)

Cracked windscreen in a "Gripper". Emergency descent. Nos 1 & 3 to idle, then reverse. When above reverse idle, No 2 to idle (1 & 3 giving pressurisation). Rate of descent was so dramatic, I timed it on the stopwatch. 22,000 fpm. So there!
Prober
Prober is offline  
Old 4th Jun 2010, 23:27
  #19 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2001
Location: Around the World
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Originally Posted by patrickal
Perhaps the fact that he probably had to almost piss up into the toilet may have given a hint to hurry back to the office.
Now that has to be the funniest thing ever posted here
Burger Thing is offline  
Old 5th Jun 2010, 08:45
  #20 (permalink)  
The Reverend
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Sydney,NSW,Australia
Posts: 2,020
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
willfly380, check your PMs.
HotDog is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell or Share My Personal Information

Copyright © 2023 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.