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Polish Government Tu154M crash

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Polish Government Tu154M crash

Old 10th Apr 2010, 12:55
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LH

No MEL means the a/c is unserviceable with ANY defect, no matter how insignificant. It is a much stricter rule than operating under MEL. As CO pointed out, not very economical...
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 12:55
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+ 0.5 visibility.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:02
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German news channel N24 reports that the tower suggested to divert to Moscow and got the reply from the cockpit crew that "the Polish President lands where he wants". (unconfirmed)

As always, you've got to be careful with all the sh!t stuff making the round.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:11
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What a tragedy. A whole leadership of a country almost wiped out. Again, another terrible instance or moment of aviation that could have been avoided.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:12
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Facts:
aircraft involved: Tu-154M reg 101 (http://russianplanes.net/REGINFO/3143)
maintenance status: not known yet
airfield: Смоленск-Северный (military, north of Smolensk, 2,500m rwy)
conditions: low visibility
other: three aboarted landings a fourth attempted landing underway

Possible causes:
low visibility combined with psychological stress for the crew caused by VIP pax

The real cause will be finally found by the investigators.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:15
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... and then booked all 8 of us on the same minibus to the airport.
But you do share the same room on a meeting?
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:16
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The airforce mentality of 'complete the mission
I have to disagree. I had a honor to fly on jump seat in presidential aircraft on official mission. I haven't noticed anything but "Lufthansa" standard,if we agree that Lufthansa deserve current top reputation.
So idea to transport VVIP, on manner different than the most experienced air operators do, is not something that could not accept as a standard,how it should be done.
Regardless it is under military belt or private operator.
Safety has no alternative!
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:17
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Could a military PIC just be "ordered to land" by higher ranking pax regardless of his own decision?
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:18
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The real cause will be finally found by the investigators.
And might be never released to public. We'll get some bull**it blame-the-dead-pilot report instead.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:21
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Your English is not Lufthansa standard so I doubt your ability to judge is either.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:22
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Someone has to say this now. If you don't know polish mentality you won’t be able to understand why this happened. To make the story short - they (pilots) had to land, no matter what. That was the matter of their honor. I can imagine the pressure on them... Diversion was not the option. And here we have the sad outcome.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:23
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Could a military PIC just be "ordered to land" by higher ranking pax...
Technically, no. However imagine the scenario that the Air Force Commander is sitting behind you on the jump seat, and quietly mumbles after the third attempt "if I were you, I'd try going 100ft lower..."

Last edited by andrasz; 10th Apr 2010 at 13:36.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:27
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another video

TV russa mostra imagens dos fragmentos de avião após queda
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:33
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And might be never released to public. We'll get some bull**it blame-the-dead-pilot report instead.
Well, it may have been a pilot error - assuming he was on the controls. Even though I pointed out that this specific situation putting an extra pressure on him. How many of you made a fourth attempt to bring your bird down in such weather conditions? How many of you would have diverted if there was only you in the a/c?
To make the story short - they (pilots) had to land, no matter what.
Having the 2008 Tbilisi story in mind I can vaguely imagine about the pilot's last thoughts.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:48
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In a briefing recently Russian official confirmed parts of aircraft found
already 1-2 km before the crash site.
Witness suggested take off power applied shortly before crash.

The aircraft crashed while attempting a go around ...
When take off thrust was applied, the no.2 engine failed, severing the control cables for the elevator and rudder.
Sounds familiar?

This is the LOT Il-62 crash 1980.

Another one:

Date: 09 MAY 1987
Time: 11:12
Type: Ilyushin 62M
Cycles: 1752
Engines: 4 Soloviev D-30KU

the no. 2 engine Low Pressure turbine shaft broke loose, followed by the failure of the turbine disc. Debris punctured the aft fuselage, causing a fire in the cargo hold. The elevator control system was severed and the no. 1 engine had to be shut down.


The same engines as 154M.

Last edited by Ptkay; 10th Apr 2010 at 14:11.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:51
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Confirmed: 88 passengers and 8 crew.

96.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 13:59
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Date: 30 JUN 2008
Time: 15:48
Type: Tupolev 154M
Operator: Aeroflot Russian International Airlines
Registration: RA-85667
C/n / msn: 89A825
First flight: 1989
Engines: 3 Soloviev D-30KU-154-II


The nr.1 engine suffered an uncontained failure during takeoff. The aircraft was traveling at 60 km/h (32 kts) when the engine failed. Takeoff was aborted.

Last edited by Ptkay; 10th Apr 2010 at 14:12.
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 14:00
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The Kathryn Report excellent site for news feed info and video . . .
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 14:04
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I have to disagree. I had a honor to fly on jump seat in presidential aircraft on official mission. I haven't noticed anything but "Lufthansa" standard,if we agree that Lufthansa deserve current top reputation.
The first thing that apparently was not "Lufthansa standard" on your jumpsear flight was the fact that YOU WERE ON THE JUMPSEAT!
On quite a few recent high profile accidents there has been someone on the J/S. Might not have been the cause for the accident, but at least there was distraction from the flightdeck routine.
And, as Andrasz mentioned before, the last thing you need on a troubled approach is a voice from the second row telling you how to do it better...
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Old 10th Apr 2010, 14:07
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In a briefing recently Russian official confirmed parts of aircraft found already 1-2 km before the crash site.
Source ? That would certainly give a new angle to things, however all I can find on this presently is your word...

:offtopic:

The first thing that apparently was not "Lufthansa standard" on your jumpsear flight was the fact that YOU WERE ON THE JUMPSEAT!
Actually LH is one of the very few airlines left who DO take you on jumpseat, at the captain's discretion, if you are airline staff. All done in the professional LH manner, with briefing on the oxygen system and adherence to the clean cockpit rule. Had the pleasure several times myself, can only convey my thanks to the captains involved for not leaving me behind.
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