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JFK ATC in the news...

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JFK ATC in the news...

Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:31
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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tkazaz, they were both at the controls at the same time whilst dad and the f/o were standing talking to the f/e behind them. Big big difference.

purplehelmet, are you sure that trainee controllers are licenced? Better stop flying now!

eklawyer, a refreshing post.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:38
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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avman.
i dont want to split hairs over this but trainee controllers are trainee controllers not young school kids with a day off to watch daddy work.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:43
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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I do want to split hairs because, with all due respect, you're full of BS. Perhaps you do indeed qualify as an NWR

And, by the way, the kid was NOT controlling anything. The qualified ATCO next to him was. Get your facts right.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:51
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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ok if there is no problem with this why dont all atc take their kids to work and let them play at controllers for a day.
if its no problem then why has the faa suspended the guy.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:58
  #45 (permalink)  
 
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OFF sake.......can someone please show me which terminal has flights back to planet earth????
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:58
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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purplehelmet, we all know the authorities are always right


(For the impaired: the message is intentionally sarcastic towards cynical.)
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 18:59
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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Avman thank you it is indeed a big big difference very much like one kid in the visual tower and so long as the other is not in radar at the same time, all will be as they say at the other end of the pond, just dandy or if you prefer swell.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:01
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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We all know that this probably wasn't the most kosher thing to do! We also all know what is (probably) going to happen to the ones involved.

But some of you should really go rub one off!! It's great, I promise, and it will take off a lot of pressure, and release a lot of pent up energy!
Maybe then you'll see the funny side of this!

Btw, this kid was way more intelligible than Paris controllers.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:24
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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It seems the only ones worried by this are the non-pilots!

I think everyone else understands that:
  1. The young lad wasn't controlling anything - he was simply repeating, "parrot fashion" the instrucitons the controller sitting next to him was saying.
  2. The controller was plugged into a dual headset, and there was never a time when they couldn't have overridden the child, had that child suddenly said something "unexpected".

Regards the Russian accident - the FO was in the right hand seat, the left seat had the captain's son. (The captain's daughter had been in that seat previously.)

The really criminal bit was that the FO had the seat cranked back, and was too short to reach the controls from that position, and no one was monitoring what the young lad was doing with the controls, or was able to diagnose that the pressure the young boy had applied to the control wheel had dropped the autopilot into control wheel steering.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 19:27
  #50 (permalink)  
 
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i guess this makes me and the faa a load of new world retards.
Yes it does.

Just forbid flying and having fun, then we are done with it and can turn to other things.

There was NOTHING dangerous taking place. This kid had some fun, so what!

Non event.

My father took me to work often. He was an ATCO, I partly grew up in the tower. I issued my first clearance probably at an age of 5 years.


why has the faa suspended the guy
Because some idiot made it public. They now have to react.
And knowing the usual kneejerk reactions of the US authorities, they wonŽt stop before the father is out of a job and the kid morally going through hell because he had part in his fathers demise.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:01
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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<<My father took me to work often. He was an ATCO, I partly grew up in the tower. I issued my first clearance probably at an age of 5 years>>

Then your father should have been sacked.... and then hung, drawn and quartered. I took my young son into the tower where I worked and he had specific instructions to sit and watch - from a distance. It's complete, lunatic, totally unprofessional stupidity to let a child on the R/T.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:06
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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Oh my dear HD, you are so perfect. Go and tell them in the ATC forum where there's a thread running too.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:12
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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I wouldn't want to see those involved pilloried for what was effectively a lapse of judgement, we can all fall pray to that - but that is what it was. If nothing else, the advent of Youtube makes anything like this likely to hit the public domain very quickly, with all that entails.
I don't doubt the kid was monitored very carefully & at no time was anyone in any specific danger. But that's not the point: the people paying for those aircraft to be in the air expect more than that.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:18
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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I partly grew up in the tower. I issued my first clearance probably at an age of 5 years.
Words, for once, fail me.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:28
  #55 (permalink)  

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Just forbid flying and having fun, then we are done with it and can turn to other things.
I'm sorry I didn't realise ATC and civil air transport was entertainment.

Complete and utter lack of judgement.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:39
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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"Blue" 171 didn't seem to have an issue and duly contacted Departures!
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:49
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HD, "It's complete, lunatic, totally unprofessional stupidity to let a child on the R/T. "

YouŽd be right if I - or the kid in question here - would have done that regularly, without being watched etcetc. The kid said what his Dad told him.
A few words in a - supposedly - calm traffic situation. Having a - say german - PPL student working the radio in english the first time sounds usually way worse than the lad in that youtube video.
Rest assured my father did allow me that only in special circiumstances. (low traffic, to traffic he knew) Usually I sat there quiet and watched, as your son did.

I'm sorry I didn't realise ATC and civil air transport was entertainment.
And I didnŽt realise I said it was. Complete and utter lack of reading capabilities.

Look guys, regardless of what we think and write, this guy will be - to use HDs words - sacked.... and then hung, drawn and quartered. For letting his son see his workplace AND use the radio under his supervision. With other controllers present. With no harm done.
I feel sorry for him.

Now get your pick at me.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 20:50
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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It's complete, lunatic, totally unprofessional stupidity to let a child on the R/T.
Pretty stupid as it turns out because its going to cost him his job but the kid didn't seem to be having much trouble getting the words out did he? I can't see how safety was compromised, the pilots sounded like they knew exactly what was going on and the dad could have jumped in at any point.

As someone else has said it is quite interesting that the only people who don't seem to have a problem are the pilots (at JFK and on this board). Why I wonder, are we all too laid back or do we just not understand? Does it actually matter in what form the clearance was issued if you know it's authentic? If we were still using lights and verey (very?) pistols to issue take-off clearances would it be a problem if the kid had been allowed to switch on the light or pull the trigger?

It's the reaction that lunatic.
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 21:07
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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I wonder how the pax would feel knowing that an 8 year old or whatever was issuing safety critical clearances to their aircraft?
It clearly wasn't dangerous in this instance - just an extremely poor lapse of judgement on behalf of the controller. Not being dangerous doesn't make it right...
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Old 3rd Mar 2010, 21:25
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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Single biggest blow to ATCO pay ever. If a child can do it why do we need expensive ATCOs, especially in Spain? Not what I believe but maybe Jo Public might.
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