Thomas Cook return to Caselle moments after take off
I experienced this in 1988 with a brand new Air Europe 757 when the starboard over pressure valve let go after refuelling in Olbia, resulting in an impressive fuel leak and an unscheduled night stop. Happy days!
Well I think it was a very artistic article what with the 'azure' and 'dramatic' bits.
Gushing white 'gainst azure sky
Clear kerosene discloses alpha brink
Dramatis personae enquire why
and seat 2A asks for a drink.
I thank you
Gushing white 'gainst azure sky
Clear kerosene discloses alpha brink
Dramatis personae enquire why
and seat 2A asks for a drink.
I thank you
greenfield,
Good point and understandable concern. There are a few differences:
1. The B757 fuel spill APPEARS to come from the surge tank vent area designed to release fuel and well away from the engine exhaust.
2. Concorde had a ruptured tank close to the engine.
3. Concorde had the afterburners lit.
backtrack, Just going for another look. No, don't know and not sure if my B757 manuals are still in the loft.
Good point and understandable concern. There are a few differences:
1. The B757 fuel spill APPEARS to come from the surge tank vent area designed to release fuel and well away from the engine exhaust.
2. Concorde had a ruptured tank close to the engine.
3. Concorde had the afterburners lit.
backtrack, Just going for another look. No, don't know and not sure if my B757 manuals are still in the loft.
Join Date: May 2007
Location: Europe
Posts: 1,416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Now that we've had our fun mocking the reporter, quite rightly, can any experts (let's say B757 type-rated engineers and/or knowledgeable B757 pilots) help with exactly what happened, and why it happened?
The following seem to be knowledgeable, especially after seeing the layout diagram...
The following seem to be knowledgeable, especially after seeing the layout diagram...
Looks like the vent from the surge tank
The vent /surge tank NACA scoop is located at the outermost part of the wing. Other than a ruptured manhole panel it is probably coming from the overpressure relief valve. Seems like it was doing its job, why is another matter!
Could I suggest the leak is from one of the fuel measuring dripsticks - probably the outermost?
It's a bit difficult to tell from the photos, but I think the NACA vents are further outboard.
It's a bit difficult to tell from the photos, but I think the NACA vents are further outboard.
Join Date: Jul 2007
Location: Oxenfforrdde
Posts: 168
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Afterburners ?
As I understand it, the investigation put said the fuel fire was ignited by damaged U/C wiring.
The burner flames couldn't migrate forward enough at speed/slipstream to start it.
As I understand it, the investigation put said the fuel fire was ignited by damaged U/C wiring.
The burner flames couldn't migrate forward enough at speed/slipstream to start it.
Trying to KISS.
Conc report said eng ignition and propagation POSSIBLE but u/c spark more LIKELY.
In future I'll try to write longer, more accurate posts and refrain from soiling my lips with colonial expressions even if I consider them more readily understandable by the reader
Conc report said eng ignition and propagation POSSIBLE but u/c spark more LIKELY.
In future I'll try to write longer, more accurate posts and refrain from soiling my lips with colonial expressions even if I consider them more readily understandable by the reader
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: Duxbai
Posts: 122
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I think that the most probable cause for the leak has been given. It is more than likely a failed overpressure valve.
Would the fuel ignite? From that position, I would say not. It is emanating from the tip and as can be seen from the pics, the fuel trail is being picked up by the wing vortices, which if anything move it away from the engine exhaust trail. Even so, the speed of the aircraft means that it is extremely unlikely for the exhaust to be able to ignite the fuel.
With that said, it is certainly an unsettling sight for passengers in the cabin and it's certainly not one I would want to see from the flight deck. Yes, the article is a bit sensationalised but hey it's the Daily Mail. We expect that.
The Flight Deck did exactly what they were supposed to and got her on the ground. Best possible result.
Aircraft are machines, which means they will from time to time go wrong. Unavoidable, no matter how well they are maintained.
Having just received a Flight Safety Bulleting from the company about this episode, I can now say that it was indeed the RH overpressure valve that failed.
Case closed, moving on!
Would the fuel ignite? From that position, I would say not. It is emanating from the tip and as can be seen from the pics, the fuel trail is being picked up by the wing vortices, which if anything move it away from the engine exhaust trail. Even so, the speed of the aircraft means that it is extremely unlikely for the exhaust to be able to ignite the fuel.
With that said, it is certainly an unsettling sight for passengers in the cabin and it's certainly not one I would want to see from the flight deck. Yes, the article is a bit sensationalised but hey it's the Daily Mail. We expect that.
The Flight Deck did exactly what they were supposed to and got her on the ground. Best possible result.
Aircraft are machines, which means they will from time to time go wrong. Unavoidable, no matter how well they are maintained.
Having just received a Flight Safety Bulleting from the company about this episode, I can now say that it was indeed the RH overpressure valve that failed.
Case closed, moving on!
Last edited by flyinthesky; 23rd Feb 2010 at 16:02. Reason: More info available
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: 30W
Age: 56
Posts: 55
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
V
The overpressure valve is seated on spring loaded balls, a little like the old fashioned bathroom cabinet door ball catches and simply has to be reset after 'blowing' off.
The O/P valve is a secondary measure to prevent the tank popping the rivets in the case that the vent surge line is blocked for some reason. As stated the vent surge tank is at the outermost part of the wing and this leak is clearly further inboard.
The fuel measuring sticks even in the event of snapping would not cause a leak as they are sticks contained in a sealed tube and not like the old fashioned 'drip sticks'. A magnetic donut rides outside the tube inside the tank and floats on top of the fuel. when the magnet on the stick meets the magnet of the donut (through the wall of the tube) the stick is held in position.
In terms of danger, if it was the O/P valve then it was doing exactly as designed and there was no fire danger. Its why the valve is located well outboard and not in front of the engine! However no pilot would take the sight or report of fuel pissing out of a wing lightly and IMHO an immediate return was absolutely right.
Good job guys!
oops didnt read last line of post above.....soz
The overpressure valve is seated on spring loaded balls, a little like the old fashioned bathroom cabinet door ball catches and simply has to be reset after 'blowing' off.
The O/P valve is a secondary measure to prevent the tank popping the rivets in the case that the vent surge line is blocked for some reason. As stated the vent surge tank is at the outermost part of the wing and this leak is clearly further inboard.
The fuel measuring sticks even in the event of snapping would not cause a leak as they are sticks contained in a sealed tube and not like the old fashioned 'drip sticks'. A magnetic donut rides outside the tube inside the tank and floats on top of the fuel. when the magnet on the stick meets the magnet of the donut (through the wall of the tube) the stick is held in position.
In terms of danger, if it was the O/P valve then it was doing exactly as designed and there was no fire danger. Its why the valve is located well outboard and not in front of the engine! However no pilot would take the sight or report of fuel pissing out of a wing lightly and IMHO an immediate return was absolutely right.
Good job guys!
oops didnt read last line of post above.....soz
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: Hazel Grove, Stockport
Age: 83
Posts: 83
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Re post 3 from puff m'call, I do take umbridge to your remark about the great unwashed in your post. As a passenger and a licensed engineer for over 44 years in the industry, I would be worried seeing the fuel p*****g out from under the wing of any aircraft though not from a fire point of view, and yes, I do shower probably as often as you do.
I am dissapointed in some of the arrogant remarks that are left on this forum by both engineering and flight deck staff who should know better. This forum is read by a lot of people who are interested in any event that happens in aviation and are not part of the industry.
Remember puff m'call, those great unwashed also pay your wages.
I am dissapointed in some of the arrogant remarks that are left on this forum by both engineering and flight deck staff who should know better. This forum is read by a lot of people who are interested in any event that happens in aviation and are not part of the industry.
Remember puff m'call, those great unwashed also pay your wages.
ThRedBearOne
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Where my heart is.
Posts: 602
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
You just have to ensure that your headset is on at a theatrically jaunty angle and then deliver your mayday as a flawless Shakespearean soliloquy
That is the question.
Whether 'tis nobler in the mind to suffer
The slings and arrows of outrageous reporting,
Or to take arms against a sea of Jet A
And, by supposing, vent it. To fly, to sleep
No more – and by a sleep to say we end
The heartache and the thousand natural shocks
That flight is heir to – ‘tis a consummation
Devoutly to be wished. To fly, to sleep
To sleep, perchance to scream. Ay, there's the rub,
For in that sleep of death what dreams may come,
When we have shuffled off this mortal coil, ...
... No traveler returns, puzzles the will
And makes us rather bear those ills we have
Than fly to others that we know not of?
Thus conscience does make cowards of us all,
And thus the native hue of resolution
Is sicklied o'er with the pale cast of thought,
And enterprises of great pitch, yaw and moment
With this regard the wake vortex turn awry,
And lose the name of action.—Soft you now!
The fair PF! Nymph, in thy orisons
Be all thy sins reported.