KLM 737 @t EHAM & Aeroflot 737 @ ENGM taxiway take-off

[Sauter]

Aeroflot A320 T/O on taxiway N @ ENGM

Looks like our Russian friends, join the Dutch/French in this incident at OSL (ENGM) this afternoon, according to Norwegian press!!
Link (sorry, in Norwegian):
Gardermoen: Fly tok av på feil bane | www.rb.no

Scary, and VERY strange I think, but nevertheless possible...

Regards,

"Sauter" with Homebase OSL

[vovachan]

so what's the prob there exactly

[Sauter]

Well, being the courteous and naive Viking that I am, I suspect you are REALLY confused, so to clarify:
An Aeroflot Airbus A320 took off from taxiway "N" (November) at ENGM this afternoon (15:15 Local time) - much like the KLM @ EHAM mentioned in another tread.
The Norwegian CAA is looking into this serious incident, I was merely posting, because there is a very similar incident being investigated by the Dutch authorities - Well worth mentioning here, me thinks...

[minimumunstick]

No wonder they can't tell the difference when both the runway markings AND taxiway markings are yellow. That makes it a 50/50 chance to pick the right one!

[High 6]

Happened in Beirut with Emirates about 7 yrs ago. Due to the fact that ATC give take off clearances well in advance and pilots were not familiar with layout. It didn't help that the parallel taxiway they had to cross at the end used to be the old runway.... so murphy's law, dark night etc.... and voila!

[Nubboy]

Just to add some more multi-culturism to the topic, what about the threshold for rwy 28 at DUB (EIDW). Ever so easy to launch off in the wrong direction. The bottow corner where you turn on is a right mish mash of taxiways and runways. Has anyone ever done so?

Not forgetting up the road at BFS (EGAA) where more than one unfortunate has landed at the disused/private (Martin Baker?) airfield on short finals for 07 (I think from memory, not been there for a while).

In a similar theme Air India at Northolt instead of London Heathrow.

Didn't some one else do a military airfield instead of Tblisi last year.

Loads of examples where people have lost their situiatuional awareness, and not one of them in a KLM aircraft, nor under Dutch ATC.

Still there's nothing like a bit of gross generalisation or steorotyping to wind people up

[Super VC-10]

The Aeroflot incident story in English.

Incident: Aeroflot A320 at Oslo on Feb 25th 2010, took off taxiway

[haejangkuk]

So this error of taking off and landing from and onto taxiways happen to all nationalities, colour, race or creed. Wow! And folks over this forum are so nice, tolerant. But if that happen to an oriental pilot, god forbid. All kinds of diatribes, insinuations .etc

[Avman]

Nubboy, why are you going off topic? This thread is about taking off on taxiways, not landing at the wrong airports. That's been covered enough times before. And wasn't it Pan Am, not Air India?

[Nubboy]

pardon me. I thought it was about loss of situational awareness, especially in regard to looking at one piece of tarmac, and thinking your at another. Getting airborne off a taxiway, or going visual and chucking the tin tube at the wrong runway, with both crew members looking out of the window and KNOWING where they are. I bet there's naff all difference between the mindsets for both types of incident which would make them virtually identical, in psychological terms. Regardless of race colour creed culture or background. They all had a mental model of where they were, which was very very flawed.

I'm also sick and tired of the repeated bashing of one group of people by another, the I'm better than you syndrome.

I thought the aim of our safety culture was to identify areas which have a common theme running through them, rather than just looking down a very narrow tunnel and putting each and every incident in it's own box, with it's own little national flag on it.

[68+iou1]

The investigators in both incidences should look at accumulative fatigue!

[HotelT]

Negative Training ?

Rumor has it, the KLM 737 simulator check of this semester included takeoffs and landings from narrower-than-usual-runways.

Guess what they used as practice 'Runway' for this session: RTM taxiway(V) ...

"Train the Way You'll Fight; Fight the Way You've Trained"?

[Roddenty]

Funny, three days ago I turned to the right after departure.
Runway? 36L.

Depends on the time of day. 36L is the least noise sensitive.

[soullimbo]

Dutch CAA (IVW) published a statement mentioning that the media suggested these pilots are back at work again, which is denied by IVW.

KLM-piloten vlogen niet door na incident taxibaan - Inspectie Verkeer en Waterstaat

Naar aanleiding van het incident met een KLM-vliegtuig dat op woensdagavond 10 februari op de luchthaven Schiphol opsteeg van een taxibaan in plaats van een startbaan, is er in een aantal media gesuggereerd dat de betreffende KLM-crew door is blijven vliegen na deze vlucht. Dit bericht is onjuist.
Volgens KLM-procedures wordt de betrokken bemanning na een incident, dat aanleiding geeft tot een onderzoek tijdelijk vrijgesteld van normale werkzaamheden. Dit met als reden om beschikbaar te zijn voor het onderzoek naar het incident. Het onderzoek naar het incident loopt nog steeds.

Roughly:
There have been media reports suggesting that the KLM crew has been allowed to fly again after the taxi-way take off incident. This is not correct. According to procedures, the crew has been relieved of their flying duties until the accident investigation has been finished so the crew can assist the investigators. The investigation is still ongoing.


In the opinion of some of the online newspaper article comments, that crew will get away with anything (potential second Tenerife type disaster) if KLM allows them to fly again. As a ryanair pilot I don't take off from Schiphol, but a high school friend, a Martinair pilot, simply can't belief how this could have happened as all the visual clues will immediately tell you it's a taxi-way. Sure strange what happened, but surely this could have been history repeating itself.

[wingview]

Why Tenerife??? They took off from the runway itself, but without a clearance. To me two different stories.

[Pander216]

@ Wingview:

Tenerife disaster as in a major on ground collission between two aircraft...

[wingview]

@Pander 216

I was referring to

potential second Tenerife type disaster

The result could have been the same, in this case the company is the same but the cause is completly different... To me two seperate issues.

[Pander216]

The Tenerife disaster is a result, not a a cause. That is where Soullibo is referring to. The result in this respective incident could have been the same where as the cause is -in that respect- not relevant. A KLM colliding with an other aircraft while taking off would without a doubt been referred to the Tenerife disaster...

So there definetly is a resemblance between the two situations...

[JW411]

Putting it in very simple words:

This aircraft took off on a taxiway instead of a runway.

If some poor sod had happened to be going about his normal business and was heading down the taxiway for take-off and had been struck at high speed by a 737 going the other way then the result would have been quite nasty.

In fact, although there was no fog or Spanish ATC involved, the result could have been just as tragic - right on their home territory.

The fact that this happened to the one airline that caused the biggest single disaster in aviation is surely quite incidental.

[sleeper]

The fact that this happened to the one airline that caused the biggest single disaster in aviation is surely quite incidental.

I surely hope so, given the fact that it happens to other airlines as well. Being it take offs on taxiways, landing and take offs on wrong runways or landing on the correct runway but not cleared or runway still occupied.