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Lufthansa Pilots to ballot on strike action

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Lufthansa Pilots to ballot on strike action

Old 21st Feb 2010, 07:49
  #101 (permalink)  
 
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Usually, if you want more money or privileges, you argue with the quality of your work. However, in a recent air safety ranking published by www.aerointernational.de (yes, a German site), LH ranks only 19th in terms of safety (and well behind airlines whose pilots are apparently held in disregard by those sitting in LH cockpits).
Al Fakhem is offline  
Old 21st Feb 2010, 13:54
  #102 (permalink)  
 
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No one, who actually is in the aviation industry would ever bring up those stupid rankings.

But this one is only for Al Fakim. Do not want to start a discussion about it...


Airline A:

fleet size: 300 aircraft
flights per day: 2000 flights (mostly short range)
Accidents: 2 in the last 60 years (100 fatalities)
0 in the last 15 years
Type of airports 10 % Cat C; 30 % Cat B; 60 % Cat A
Number of destinations: 165

Airline B:

fleet size: 100 aircraft
flights per day: 500 flights (mostly long range)
Accidents: 1 in the last 60 years (30 fatalities)
0 in the last 15 years
Type of airports 12 % Cat C; 22 % Cat B; 66 % Cat A
Number of destinations: 45


Who dares to pick the "safer" airline? Most statistics only consider number of accidents and number of fatalities. In this case Airline B would be "safer".. On the other hand, airline B would have had 4 accidents with 120 fatalities if it would have performed 2000 instead of 500 flights. But maybe it wouldn't have??
Or airline A: If it had only performed 500 flights a day, number of accidents would be 0.5 ( ) with only 25 fatalities. On the other hand, those two accidents might still have happened in the remaining 500 flights?
So, this is just to give you a basic idea, how hard it is to really have a fair statistic on aviation safety. A couple of facts on which airline has the more effective flight safety department (and how do you want to measure it) and so on would further complicate the statistic.
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 14:16
  #103 (permalink)  
 
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Thumbs down

@ Al Fakhem

what a useless post.
Airlines like EY only 6 years old are ranked in front of airlines which last hull loss ist 15 or more years in the past.
The whole jadec safetyrating is a huge load of BS!!
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 16:59
  #104 (permalink)  
 
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747Guru. That was a good posting. And I believe you are right.
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 19:00
  #105 (permalink)  
 
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Austrian and Swiss employment law may well be different to the UK's. BALPA have made it clear to the UK arm of the Lufthansa group that if they (BALPA) advise the pilots not to operate flights for Lufthansa, they would be taken to court for encouraging strike action without a valid ballot. Also, if we as pilots, refuse to operate the flights we are in breach of contract and could face dismissal. In any case, by the end of this week, around 70 bmi pilots will get a letter giving them three months notice of being made redundant. If any of those pilots who feel they have nothing to lose refuse on principle to operate a Lufthansa strike-breaking flight I would be mightily impressed.
I'm sure BALPA will have spoken to VC and explained the situation but I would like to make it clear to any Lufthansa pilots reading this that bmi pilots do not want to be operating these flights, BALPA will be taken to court if they encourage us not to fly them and we face dismissal if we refuse individually. It is a horrible situation that none of us want to be in.

Last edited by Doug E Style; 21st Feb 2010 at 19:18.
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 20:54
  #106 (permalink)  
 
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Wink That sounds dangerous

Sounds like stress. A conflict . Do not operate as a flight-crew member in such a condition....
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Old 21st Feb 2010, 23:39
  #107 (permalink)  
 
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BALPA rep

@ EMA on a Sunday, trying to drum up membership at a German owned cargo outfit. Having introduced themselves in the Ops room to steer the guys down. 10 on a course, and one missed two crew op departed. Oh dear, and BALPA by default.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 05:28
  #108 (permalink)  
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Am I making wrong connections here?

LH pilots forced to take action, since it appears management want to bring in crews and fleet from lower cost subsidiaries. Result, strike action.

Fast forward a few months....

BD pilots forced to take action, since it appears management want to bring in crews and fleet from lower cost subsidiaries. Result, tba...

And there was everybody wondering what LH had in store for bmibaby....

TA
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 05:58
  #109 (permalink)  
 
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Charly:

I would have no problems sitting a test in advanced statistical methods.

You selectively mention airlines which, indeed, cannot be compared to LH in size, history and mileage.

However, you conveniently do not mention those that easily compare, such as ANA or BA. ANA carries as many pax domestically as LH does internationally, so you can assume they have even more take-offs and landings.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 08:41
  #110 (permalink)  
 
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BTW, some journos already talk about the "biggest strike in aviation."

Anyone who knows better?

thx
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 09:55
  #111 (permalink)  
 
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Wink

As studi puts it: We are all bound to our company due to seniority

Management isn't. So Mr Franz and Mr Lauer don’t care about the strike personally. Even if they fail - we will see that happen - there will be a warm place waiting.

The ultimate goal of airline-management is "Lufthansa Germany" (or BA, AF, KLM) reputation with "Lufthansa India" wages and working rules.

The strike is against a kind of "Philippinisation”. Just have a look at the shipping-industry....
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 09:57
  #112 (permalink)  
 
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Studi

Good luck, there are many of us who support what you are doing.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 11:37
  #113 (permalink)  
 
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To all my dear pilot collaegues who oppose our strike...

To all my dear pilot collaegues who oppose our strike...

It is always atleast as informative to ask the queastion:" why does somebody tell me a message?" than only listen to the content...

the reason why a reasonable pilot opposes a strike for valid contracts and against erodication of his work, can only be that he has no work to defend!

The work he is doing is not worth to raise his voice, there is no pride that strives one to protect his profession, he sees no future in what he is doing for living....

Only if you dont care about today and dont give a $hit about your future collagues, there is a reason not to stand tall today...

be safe
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 12:05
  #114 (permalink)  
 
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The most funny thing that a lot of pilots are whining about there declining terms and conditions, let it be at Easy, Emirates, Ryanair, Cargolux or whatever.
Now there is a group of pilots, of course a group which is treated much better than others, protesting against and they are treated like criminal and idiots.
What a strange world we are living in.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 12:44
  #115 (permalink)  
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Frosch :[
The ultimate goal of airline-management is "Lufthansa Germany" (or BA, AF, KLM) reputation with "Lufthansa India" wages and working rules.
The strike is against a kind of "Philippinisation”.
You could not have been more right : This has already started in other parts of the airline . A couple of months ago while refueling my single engine in Malta, I saw a large bunch of young Philipinos wearing LH badges walking by. I was told that there were " students" in Aircraft maintenance getting their European EASA accreditations. LH is investing massively in Malta and The Philippines to move away their traditional German maintenance bases.

I fully support what VC is doing because if this does not stop we will be next.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 14:24
  #116 (permalink)  
 
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You could not have been more right : This has already started in other parts of the airline . A couple of months ago while refueling my single engine in Malta, I saw a large bunch of young Philipinos wearing LH badges walking by. I was told that there were " students" in Aircraft maintenance getting their European EASA accreditations. LH is investing massively in Malta and The Philippines to move away their traditional German maintenance bases.
You were totally wrong. What you saw were Philippinos training Maltese new staff, so that the work can stay in Europe.

This is the problem of the majority of the pilots yelling here. They just see something ("being told"), but they do not understand what's behind.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 14:53
  #117 (permalink)  
 
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didnt take the time 2 read all the posts here. just wanted 2 give my support 2 LH pilots in their strugle. whish u all the best. If u big guys dont stand 4 your rights, what is there for the rest of us. was about time 2 stop this cicle of declining wages and working conditions in this profession.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 18:20
  #118 (permalink)  
 
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FRANKFURT (AP) The union for striking Lufthansa pilots has agreed to suspend their walkout until March 9.
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 19:33
  #119 (permalink)  
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3miles :
You were totally wrong. What you saw were Philippinos training Maltese new staff, so that the work can stay in Europe
Perhaps you are right , but the guys I saw were in their 20s so what you claim does not make much sense. Also looking at LH technick Malta company profile on the web (*) , it indeed says : " MCAST has been instrumental in training young men and women specifically for this industry which just two years ago started, experience-wise " but does not specify which nationality those "young men and women " really are and which contract they will have. Because if they were under German contracts and salaries, the nationality issue would disappear of course.

But , as I am not in the secrets of LH management, I have indeed to rely on what I am told.
And I am also told that currently A330-340 Checks are done in the Philippines and not in Frankfurt. A friend of mine just ferried one there last month.

As to the jobs staying "in Europe" , this is indeed the main issue : Lufthansa technik maintenance staff in Germany are likely to lose their jobs for Maltese ( and probably Philippinos) guys and girls in another part of Europe ( or the world) where the salaries and social conditions are certainly lower than those of current staff in Germany.
This is the main issue.

(*) : Lufthansa Technik Malta: The Company
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Old 22nd Feb 2010, 20:32
  #120 (permalink)  
 
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As a matter of fact

- most LH fleet C- and D-checks are done outside Germany since the early 1990s
- the facilities are called Shannon, Budapest, Manila, Malta and Sofia and were established in that order, Sofia opened last in 2008
- all facilities were established with the unanimous voting of the board of directors on which sit union and workers council members
- employment in Germany in Base and Line Maintenance has GROWN by about 1,000 employees in the same timeframe, i.e. in Frankfurt, Hamburg and Berlin mainly, e.g. by converting qualifications to special products as tankers, state and private aircraft to name a few
- not everybody could stay in exactly the same job at exactly the same airport, but this is normal life in commercial aviation
- worldwide employment has grown by about 2,000 employees in the facilities above

So where is the point here?
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