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Lufthansa Pilots to ballot on strike action

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Lufthansa Pilots to ballot on strike action

Old 17th Feb 2010, 17:02
  #41 (permalink)  
 
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SPIEGEL

Ah yeah, LEFTIES against LUFTIES.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 17:14
  #42 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks, FE Hoppy.

Unfortunately the English version isn't an 1:1 translation of the original article in German. There the author talks about the very privileged position LH pilots are in and how extremely far away from reality of other pilots that is. He compares signing an employment contract with LH at the beginning of the 20's with signing a no-risk life insurance for your own job security...

Old debate, true, but still appropriate to raise certain questions these days.

During their last strike you could see LH pilots holding up banners demanding 'top pay for top performance'. That says all about how they look down to the rest of the flock. Utterly arrogant and pathetic. As much as I would like to see them wake up, I am afraid of what the consequences might be for the rest of the industry.

And (I can see it coming): I am not a frustrated pilot who in vain has tried to be hired by LH.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 17:21
  #43 (permalink)  
 
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@jetopa

Isn't it a basic task for a union to protect existing jobs?
What's wrong to go against outsourcing?
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 17:25
  #44 (permalink)  
 
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Well, seems like you completely missed the point there Jetopa (which also means, the slogan missed the point in terms of marketing, I admit):

"'top pay for top performance'. That says all about how they look down to the rest of the flock."

refered to exterme specialists (ALL pilots, not just DLH!) wanting renumeration for their special skills (NOT because they are better persons)
, which they cannot easily transfer into another employers system, due to the tried and proven system of seniority for airline pilots.

The slogan now is:

"Only with us!"...

which stresses the point regarding the subject of this dispute.

Last edited by wonderbusdriver; 17th Feb 2010 at 17:55.
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Old 17th Feb 2010, 22:11
  #45 (permalink)  
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I was in FRA this afternoon and listened a group of VC men and women. Motivation to show teeth is mainly for job survival as LH plans to use lower scaled paid pilots from foreign subsidiaries to slowly take over main routes . This has already started in LH cargo. The first batch of dismissed existing pilots could be for later this year already.
Outsourcing abroad is something that could hit all of us one day or the other. Fighting against that is also in our long term interest , so, the timing and the method might be discussable , but the aim is clear and for that I wish them good luck and success.
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 01:20
  #46 (permalink)  
 
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jetopa>>> Jet "Opa", which translates as "grandfather"

Maybe he is suffering already from Alzheimer´s, otherwise he should remember what lead to the 2001 slogan of "Top pay for top performance":

In the early 90ies last century, Lufthansa was at the brink of bankruptcy. Due to considerable concessions mainly by the pilot group, the company was able to recover and make billions of profit within less than a decade. The pilots´ union unfortunately had forgotten to fix a "fall back clause" in the contract.
When they asked for their share in the success, they did a profound research on the salary schemes of the main competitors both in Europe and overseas and found themselves approximately 30% lower. That resulted in abovementionned slogan, which really was for a pay hike, contrary to the present situation. Also, management then did indeed believe, pilots would not stand united, as they had never done a serious strike under their former "public workers" unions.

Present situation is: salary contract ran out a year ago, last group that has no pay hike are the pilots. Cabin crew got, amongst other perks, at least 4,2% pay rise, with up to 6,9% in the lower scale (Citing from UFO Report, the CC union magazine)

So, the only thing pilots can strike about is for a pay hike, the usual game: to get the same 4,2% the rest of the employees already got on 01.01.2009 you have to ask for 6,4% at least. Of course, sounds irresponsible these days.

Pilots of LH are not irresponsible and have never been: they already offered to go for a zero pay hike, if they get other concessions, which are vital not only for LH pilots, but for others as well. Talks have been going on for over a year now, with no results. How long are they supposed to continue talks, forever and a day?

It is very popular to bash the LH pilots. In fact, the whole thing is about management flexing their muscles, (the economic environment at present is in their favor), and the response of the pilots is accordingly a message the management should not ignore once again.

The pilots have helped to save the company in the nineties, they will not be as foolish and ruin it now!
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 04:11
  #47 (permalink)  
 
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I appreciate your concern, earlyNFF, but I am still too young for 'Morbus Alzheimer'!

As much as many of your fellow LH-pilot's ignorance and arrogance upsets me, I have to admit that I can accept a biased comment on the subject.

No, I am not trying to tune in with those who engage in popular 'LH-pilots bashing', but I am seriously afraid of the consequences that your conflict with LH's management may have for the rest of us. Just think a little ahead and imagine what will happen if your speculation doesn't work out the right way...?

And no, I do not believe that you are foolish enough to ruin your own company. At least knowingly, that is.
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 04:25
  #48 (permalink)  
 
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jetopa,

what's your advice against outsourcing and how to behave with a mangement which breaks contracts?
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 06:55
  #49 (permalink)  
 
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Neutral comment

You cant stop outsourcing, no matter what you do. If management have decided to do so, they will do it eventually. Only thing you do with strikes is speedup the process and do more harm that good for the remainder of the pilots. It is just like fighting against windmils.. Sorry
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 08:48
  #50 (permalink)  

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Question Details

What are the dates and times of the strike? Is it likely to affect flight ops of sister companies? Thank you.
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 09:47
  #51 (permalink)  
 
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@earlyNFF

Due to considerable concessions mainly by the pilot group
A bit arrogant, no?
EVERYONE made considerable concessions. We (Revenue Management Cargo at the time) did 30 hours a month without pay for over 2 years...

The key issue here isn't T&C - it appears to be VC's demands for consultation on strategic corporate issues.

Franz won't budge on that one and VC has very little (if any) backing within the workforce and the travelling/general public.

People need to get serious - LH can match Air Berlin/Easyjet/Ryanair's prices with no problem. It;s just that with the current cost base, you don't make any money.

"If you don't like change, you're going to like irrelevance even less."
General Eric Shinseki, Chief of Staff, U.S. Army
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 09:57
  #52 (permalink)  
 
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@ RoyHudd

Starts Monday, finishes Thursday
LH, LH Cargo, Germanwings
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 10:11
  #53 (permalink)  
 
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"'top pay for top performance".
...and those pilots of the world wide community which have to work under low pay are all LOW PERFORMERS ?
Those Lufti monk... lost all contact to the real existing world.
They dont have my support btw, and I will have not any respect for those self-proclaimed "top performers"
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 10:56
  #54 (permalink)  
 
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Just a matter of interest - what proportion of LH cockpit crew is organised in VC?
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 10:59
  #55 (permalink)  
 
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As a reasonably frequent business flyer who refuses point blank to fly with 'airlines' such as the abysmal Ryanair, the alternatives to LH on my most common route are a bit limited.

I fly LH for its excellent service and route structure. But I expect a 'proper' airline to be capable of resolving its industrial relations without affecting its loyal customers.

Still, I've now found a feasible alternative - but it would mean the misery of Heathrow and the reported squalor of Vienna.

Wise up, LH. You are one of the few decent airlines still around which hasn't lowered itself to the levels of the 'Loco' bottom-feeders. Sort this idiocy out right now or you're going to lose a lot of goodwill and support from your long-standing business customers.
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 11:01
  #56 (permalink)  
 
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pretty close to 100%
94% voted for the strike...
Franz will learn his lesson too...
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 11:10
  #57 (permalink)  
 
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Franz will learn his lesson too...
Yep, exactly the sort of constructive attitude you'd expect from people who demand to be consulted on future Group strategy....

(Exactly which lesson do you want to teach him, btw?)
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 11:15
  #58 (permalink)  
 
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LH, LH Cargo, Germanwings
Does anyone know if Lufthansa Cityline flights (specifically those to/from LCY) will be affected?
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 11:29
  #59 (permalink)  
 
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@yetmoreSLF

From the press releases I've seen, only LH, LH Cargo, Germanwings.

Call +49 (0)800 / 8 50 60 70 for d[ecifics
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Old 18th Feb 2010, 11:59
  #60 (permalink)  
 
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" I can tell you, if we loose this fight, I will try to go out of aviation as soon as possible (low 30's is my age) to pursue another career. I will refuse to work under a regime which follows the ryanair-isation of aviation employment. "

There is thousands of pilots who will accept a lower TC´s and live happy with it alongside with the company, any major company for that matter. Things still go on with "Top Performance".

Unfortunately this is the new era what we must get used to-one way or another.. I hope you can get a good deal though, all the best

Last edited by Northern_Driver; 18th Feb 2010 at 12:16.
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