NTSB investigating possible nodding off of Northwest pilots

[Teddy Robinson]

In an A 320

well ... ok ... erm

[421dog]

C'mon. There is absolutely no way that someone missed a handoff for more than an hour due to screwing around with a laptop. Even on lonely flights across the blackest reaches of the upper midwest in the dead of winter, after fifteen minutes or so without hearing a call, everyone starts checking charts or twiddling with the FMS to ensure that the frequency in the box matches.

All that this is going to do is make it so that when the feds show up to ramp the next hapless 135 guy with a 402 full of cancelled checks and fedex overload who just made it (safely) across northern Minnesota in an ice storm without a functional autopilot, and who happened to do his paperwork on his laptop instead of on a clipboard, they've got a reason to violate him.

[Low Flier]

Each pilot accessed and used his personal laptop computer while they discussed the airline crew flight scheduling procedure. The first officer, who was more familiar with the procedure was providing instruction to the captain.

It took the dumb phuq 54 year old instructor an hour to explain the Aviate;Navigate;Communicate procedure to the dumb phuq 53 year old student?

[Teddy Robinson]

an hour now ?

Says who ? FOX "NEWS" ?

In old Europe we wait for the facts to be published. despite the national desperation to affirm that a 6 year old was in a flying gimp
( floated justifiably by his parents for a PR stunt). ?

This is no longer funny ..

Perhaps it is time for da US to start reporting facts through the correct channels rather than the public media.

TR

[wes_wall]

Seems to me, a lot of people are missing the most important aspect of this event. We have an airplane flying for 80 plus minutes, unable to respond to repeated contact attempts by ATC and by Company, and nothing being done by any security measure to actually confirm what the problem might very well be. The center can prevent traffic conflict, but the center cannot prevent the airplane from going anywhere the guys driving care to take it, or point it. Unacceptable, on all vectors. Heads should roll, and not only thoses flying the aiirplane. Indeed, who was paying attention to who and what was flying.

[Razoray]

There has been much discussion about pilots in the States not getting paid enough and not having the respect they deserve. And I agree 100%. But than something like this happens. Too busy on there lap tops?

Must be looking at porn or something...thats my best guess. Come on guys get it together......

[Teddy Robinson]

As most of the respondants are from USA

is this an american problem ?

[CONF iture]

But according to some pilots, the Northwest incident raises questions about whether laptop screens can block or hide some cockpit-instrument displays in the Airbus A320 and perhaps other jetliner models

No No No ... only on the BUS !
These sliding tables are so convenient ...

[protectthehornet]

I blame ATC and Management! :-)

So, Northwest had a perfectly good crew scheduling system and DELTA had to change it...and they didn't provide ground school in how to use it.

And ATC took over an our to figure out to use the last frequency that this flight responded on. Now I know ATC has limited Freqs, but having another flight attempt to contact a wayward NORDO plane is not a new idea.

yes, these guys screwed up. but...oh well...better to start looking for a new job

[michael744]

Hey Ironbutt 57

I remember that too. Wasn't that around the time two Republic pilots in a Republic MD-80 were arguing during taxi about the merger with NWA and forgot the checklist resulting in attempting a T/O with no L.E. or T.E flaps down? They crashed into a freeway a few hundred meters from the end of the runway killing over a 100 people. Whatever the investigation finds in this latest case there is no excuse in either case for being that inattentive. This isn't about Karma Ironbutt57, it is about actions and/or the lack of them.

[HarryMann]

I don't care how "boring" or "routine" it is. A zero-tolerance policy needs to be crafted around all these devices that are just making us dumber as a society, and LESS SAFE as pedestrians, drivers, and passengers.

Agree, they're a real distraction, cars/trucks need to be even louder these days, to compensate for lug-hole plugging devices, whilst vehciles are getting quieter in fact... pedestriand beware.
As for the flight deck... must be very addictive to even be considered as acceptable

[Airbubba]

C'mon. There is absolutely no way that someone missed a handoff for more than an hour due to screwing around with a laptop. Even on lonely flights across the blackest reaches of the upper midwest in the dead of winter, after fifteen minutes or so without hearing a call, everyone starts checking charts or twiddling with the FMS to ensure that the frequency in the box matches.

Yep, it appears that there is still more to the story.

yes, these guys screwed up. but...oh well...better to start looking for a new job

Delta seems to be sending that message:

"Using laptops or engaging in activity unrelated to the pilots' command of the aircraft during flight is strictly against the airline's flight deck policies and violations of that policy will result in termination," Delta said Monday in a statement.

Report: Stray jet's pilots were on laptops - CNN.com

'will result in termination' rather than 'may result' sounds like unusually strong language at this early stage of the NTSB investigation.

The RD's have always told me that Delta was a 'pilot's' airline, if you screwed up and came clean, they would protect your job. A lot of that depends on who is the director of ops and chief pilot in my past observation. And, in this case, we have 'public outcry' generated by the media.

Those guys who landed on the ATL taxiway the other day must be thankful to the Delta-N crew for lowering the profile of the earlier incident.

[Jetwhine]

The Top 10 Reasons Why Those Pilots Missed MSP

Here are the Top 10 Reasons why the NWA crew might have missed dozens of radios calls and SELCAL alerts. Number 10: They were texting
Number 9: It had something to do with sex
Number 8: Each pilot thought the airplane knew the way since Airbus aircraft are all automated anyway
Number 7: They really did just fall asleep
Number 6: They couldn’t decide who should have the Nintendo Wii next
Number 5: It had something to do with sex or money
Number 4: It had something to do with sex and money
Number 3: They were trying to understand NWA’s new slogan, ” We’ll get you within 150 miles of there.”
Number 2: The pilots actually have no idea why they weren’t paying attention
And the Number 1 reason why the NWA crew missed landing at Minneapolis: They were abducted by aliens, but were returned an hour later because even the little green men couldn’t stand to listen to these two guys whine about the company any longer.
Of course, these opinions do not necessarily represent those of Northwest or Delta Airlines. Did I miss any?
Rob Mark, editor
Jetwhine.com

[413X3]

Well, going by the age of the captain and co-pilot, over an hour and they might have finally figured out how to turn the laptop on... but in all seriousness, this really seems like a cover story for something else. Maybe that mystery FA who called the cockpit was actually in it "having fun" with the pilots? I am at a loss for what really happened, but their excuses just don't cut it

[malr]

We may never know

As the aircraft stayed airborne (and under positive control of the crew) long enough to run-out the CVR, we may never know what was going on up there. I like the idea of securing and investigating the laptops; that would provide some conclusive data provided they were confiscated at landing (doubt the crew would have time to fudge anything on the laptops once they were busy trying to recover from the gaff.) However, I haven't heard anything in the news about the laptops being a part of the investigation.

I think these guys will get off light..."distracted trying to figure out crew scheduling" (while still quite frightening to the world)...sounds better than "Fell asleep" or "just zoned out..."

Just my two cents.

[AnthonyGA]

I have no trouble believing that they were on laptops. Working on a computer can be very engrossing, which is why working on a laptop should be banned on the flight deck.

This is distinct from the vigilance "games" I suggested, which would be specifically designed to heighten alertness without providing enough of a distraction to take attention durably away from the flying task. They would also be part of the aircraft systems, so they would alert pilots to any anomaly. It would just be a fancy version of the vigilance devices installed on just about all railway locomotives (and on a few aircraft).

I've always wondered how pilots can use iPhones and laptops even as the airline prohibits the use of electronic devices in the passenger cabin. Legally, if the airline hasn't tested these laptops and iPhones and found them to be free of interference with aircraft systems, using them on the flight deck is illegal in all phases of flight (in the United States), whether it's the pilots using them or not. Using a laptop on the flight deck thus puts the flight at risk, legally and possibly technically.

[RWEDAREYET]

AnthonyGA,

While I don't disagree with you, have you every flown a red-eye?? Believe me, they ain't fun. Reading, CD players, Ipods, lots of coffee and now computers have been ways to deal with them.

For those that think I'm crazy, get a picture of your favorite cockpit. Put it up in your closet. Go into your closet at midnight, close the door and stay awake for the next 6 hours with little or no distractions. How long does it take you to fall asleep or find something else to do??

[GreenEyedTraveler]

I have no trouble believing that they were on laptops. Working on a computer can be very engrossing, which is why working on a laptop should be banned on the flight deck.

ALL of these "electronic devices" can be extremely engrossing (have you ever witnessed a Blackberry zombie? I'm surrounded by them. To think that pilots are probably crack-berry'ing at 30-thousand feet at the expense of my gullible self sitting back in cattle-class is highly disturbing to me, to say the least). This all takes place at the detriment of safety, as well as other quality-of-life aspects. There are new psycho-sociological disciplines being created to deal with 'man's' newfound 'addiction' to the internet, blackberrying, "Twi t t ering" (what a fu_king disgrace to the sensibility of humankind - now I suppose we can hear 'real-time' from pilots at 3400FL about how their last bowel movement went), and on and on.

The proliferation of these devices is creating an entire society of dumbed-down, "ADD-infected" inability-to-pay-attention ignorati.

The entire commercial aviation industry is facing enough issues as it is - it had better clamp down on this latest right away. Folks here may not like my strong words - but mark them down ... this issue is real, and regardless of what happens in this particular case, does anyone who's thoughtfully and carefully considered what I have to say think it's going to go away? Au contraire - it will only increase.

[muduckace]

Rwedareyet

Put it up in your closet. Go into your closet at midnight, close the door and stay awake for the next 6 hours with little or no distractions. How long does it take you to fall asleep or find something else to do?

Get another job sunshine, cry me a river and post it on youtube... Many men and women are capable of this task. What happend to the respect of being an aviator? Common scence is lost in the convoluted existence we live in. If you can not stay awake or maintain the situational awareness to do this expected task you need to find another job.

[GreenEyedTraveler]

While I don't disagree with you, have you every flown a red-eye?? Believe me, they ain't fun. Reading, CD players, Ipods, lots of coffee and now computers have been ways to deal with them.

Excusing away ... the hallmark of U.S. society nowadays.

I wonder how many military personnel would be told by their leaders that they need to find "ways to deal with" the boredom and lack of "fun" that comes with being vigilantly on-guard in-theatre. I wonder how my father, a Korean War veteran, dealt with the "boredom and lack of 'fun'?" My dad's a member of the Greatest Generation, and the person who raised me in the aviation industry. Pardon me if I get emotional about this subject.

We're a nation that anymore exhibits a disturbing compulsion to be constantly "entertained" in some fashion or another, due to our lack of ability to stay focused and attentive. It scares me. No wonder why the U.S. hasn't "won" a war anywhere in 50+ years. I guess it's just not "fun". Did you hear that, Dumbo/5-military-deferment D!ckhead/and now Osama?

We're soft. AND THEY KNOW IT.