NTSB investigating possible nodding off of Northwest pilots

[RWEDAREYET]

muduckace

First off, wasn't crying about anything and I didn't disagree with AnthonyGA....just stating the fact that flying a red-eye ain't fun and many pilots look for other tasks to keep the mind occupied. Nothing more, nothing less.

[skol]

I've been flying for airlines since 1969 and can recall a number of incidents where pilots were asleep, out of contact after missing calls, dialling up wrong frequencies etc. etc.
Big deal, these guys need a talking too and they'll never do it again.

Much worse incidents than this happen all the time, just that this one got in the news.

Let those who are without sin amongst you cast the first stone.

[exgroundcrew]

Fuel reserve?

As I understand it the extra flight duration was in excess of 1 hour and the fuel reserve is "legally" 45mins minimum, has anyone found what was the actual fuel remaining on this aircraft? Could it have been a much more serious incident?

[snaproll3480]

I've been flying for airlines since 1969 and can recall a number of incidents where pilots were asleep, out of contact after missing calls, dialling up wrong frequencies etc. etc.
Big deal, these guys need a talking too and they'll never do it again.

Much worse incidents than this happen all the time, just that this one got in the news.

Let those who are without sin amongst you cast the first stone.

Well said. This board is full of self righteous hypocrites. I enjoy flying airplanes but I really dislike most pilots for being the type of people who post self aggrandizing drivel and think they are incapable of making a mistake. Most of the a**holes I fly with (who I would imagine have a lot in common with many on this board) were probably dorks growing up who now think they are gods gift. Having a cool job, and admittedly it is, will never make up for being a social misfit with minimal people skills, nor does it qualify you to be judge and jury to fellow human beings who share the same job.

So please, all of you perfect pilots, open a flight school and save us from ourselves. One more thing, spell check won't catch the misuse of synonyms, but I thought that was just common scence. (spell check didn't even know what to do with that one)

p.s. I'm the best pilot ever, just ask my mom.

[wbble]

Fumes?

First they were asleep, then we moved on to heated discussions, now it's using their laptops. I find it really hard to believe that they both got so distracted for so long. I think there might be some other factor at work that we're not being told about. Could it have had anything to do with fumes affecting their cognitive ability? After all, this is an issue the airline industry is trying very hard to push under the carpet, and doing quite well at so far, so could the laptop story be a cover? A lot of these incident reports describe fumes affecting the flight crew.

[kontrolor]

it is obvious that cockpit needs a new addition - an alarm horn which can be triggered by datalink..

[B777FD]

I'm not a pilot but have worked in the industry for 11 years in dispatch and navigation and have a couple of questions on this.

I can understand a highly automated flightdeck must be a tad boring to monitor and it is easy to assume all is well unless ECAM says otherwise, but it is my understanding that pilots should maintain a watch both internally and externally during flight day and night. By that I mean monitoring systems and instruments, looking outside for traffic (and TCAS for traffic) and monitoring ATC and ACARS messages. Also, does anyone still fill out ETO estimates and ATO time and FOB on the paper FP? Just wondering as this would keep at least one crew member busy would it not?

And does the A320 not give a thrust ECAM message at the calculated TOD? These are just some of my questions as I find that this can happen is disturbing as a fairly frequent flyer. I'm sure being sat at the sharp end of a tube at 37000ft at that speed would sure keep my attention!

Any answers from 320 pilots would be appreciated.

FD

[Michael Birbeck]

I suppose if one believes that computers are required to keep pilots awake then at least the Airbus jockeys can study their manuals what with all the computer modes and reversion laws to understand (or not).

[B777FD]

So much depends on the ALT selected on the day which we don't know, so difficult to speculate on fuel remaing at KMSP.


PS Open to correction as always!

[HarryMann]

Red-eye flight...?
Not a particularly long flight this, surely?

Trains have a dead-mans handle, nod-off and let go and the brakes come on.. HARD

[conflict alert]

probably off topic but I once jumped at the chance to go up onto the bridge of a ship,(being a pilot and sailor)...they had one person on the bridge at any one time but they had an alarm that went off every 15mins that the person on the bridge had to silence.

[Lookleft]

At least this incident should put paid to the mistaken belief that aircraft are so automated that they will land themselves, clearly they don't.

[lomapaseo]

Boy has this thread degraded

They were distracted for a very long time... makes no difference why.

We all can be distracted.

Now how do we limit the time and circumstances?

Punishment is not the answer

[MathFox]

We all can be distracted.
Now how do we limit the time and circumstances?

I like the "have the cabin crew call every 20 minutes" suggestion; it is cheap and a good reminder of time passing by... Another option is to keep the pilots more active, have the PNF keep a pencil-on-paper flight log (position, altitude, speed, fuel, ... every 15 minutes during cruise)

[Finn47]

The pilots said there was a concentrated period of discussion where they did not monitor the airplane or calls from ATC even though both stated they heard
conversation on the radio. Also, neither pilot noticed messages that were sent by company dispatchers.

...thatīs serious enough, if you ask me.

[Tri-To-Start]

Punishment is not the answer

It is when they blatantly violated their companies policy and put 150 lives at risk.

If they dozed off, I might cut them some slack.

[lomapaseo]

Punishment is not the answer

It is when they blatantly violated their companies policy and put 150 lives at risk.

If they dozed off, I might cut them some slack.

I didn't say that "they" should not receive punishment (that's a private matter to correct them alone) only that it doesn't solve the general risk of others repeating the same error and putting "our" lives at risk in the future.

[CaptainChaotic]

I never lose sense of time when using my notebook, probably something to do with a clock always visible on the bottom right of screen.

A forensic analysis of the pilot's notebooks will provide the truth, will be very simple, if they were asleep then there will be no HD writes during the 80 minutes.

Anyone know if the crew scheduling software displays the clock, or is it a full screen application ?

[robertbartsch]

I don't want to pre-judge anyone at this point but it would be interesting to know if the NW flights can connect to the Internet at 36K.

Getting distracted on the Net and losing track of time is not uncommon but I would think it would be odd that they could be using laptops that are not connected to the net and still overfly the airport.

I assume their concession to the use of PCs will result in strong actions agaisnt them so it does not seem like this explaination would be used by them to hide some other explaination.

[filejw]

NWA had all types of info that was online and loadable to your PC. IE manuals, study materials and yes DALs new bid system. Studying manuals en route was not a no no at NWA but carrying that to the bid system most likely is a bit of a breach.