BA to get 30% rise
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So BA are trying to rouse the green-eyed monster in its ranks. Not so long ago I did a quick poll in my work environment and I found out the following:
The dispatcher earns more than me.
The engineer earns more than me.
The tug driver earns more than me.
The refueller earns more than me.
The CSD earns more than me.
Half of the cabin crew earn more than me.
I know I am new(-ish) but I reckon that if BA were to publish a list of salaries across the range of workers there would always be people earning more than pilots no matter how senior a captain you are. Most of the top end earners never even see an aircraft except to travel club to their exotic team building exercise destination. (BA were keen to show various managers recently in the News having fun on a camel in Dubai. Yes, really. Now that's what I call work.)
Now I love my job. But I believe we should be paid for what we do. I am writing this at the moment from standby, BA can call me at the drop of a hat. If I am not called I will spend the rest of the day filling in my fleet technical questionnaire and revising for my upcoming SEP quiz and sim check. If I am called any plans I may have made months ago will have to be dropped while I go to work. In the last year I have missed Christmas with my family, a relative and a friend's wedding, 2 christenings and a holiday with old friends. I still love my job, but the friends I left university with now earn double my salary, work Mon-Fri and get bank holidays off. From the media they have the idea that we are all drunk layabouts with overinflated egos who earn too much. I am happy enough at the moment to be paid what I get to fly, but I want to be able to aspire to a life of comfort a salary which compensates for the disruption to home life and the level of skill and knowledge we have to maintain and demonstrate on a regular and frequent basis.
BA needs to realise that all the managers in Waterside won't save them if the front line staff decide enough is enough.
Rant over.
The dispatcher earns more than me.
The engineer earns more than me.
The tug driver earns more than me.
The refueller earns more than me.
The CSD earns more than me.
Half of the cabin crew earn more than me.
I know I am new(-ish) but I reckon that if BA were to publish a list of salaries across the range of workers there would always be people earning more than pilots no matter how senior a captain you are. Most of the top end earners never even see an aircraft except to travel club to their exotic team building exercise destination. (BA were keen to show various managers recently in the News having fun on a camel in Dubai. Yes, really. Now that's what I call work.)
Now I love my job. But I believe we should be paid for what we do. I am writing this at the moment from standby, BA can call me at the drop of a hat. If I am not called I will spend the rest of the day filling in my fleet technical questionnaire and revising for my upcoming SEP quiz and sim check. If I am called any plans I may have made months ago will have to be dropped while I go to work. In the last year I have missed Christmas with my family, a relative and a friend's wedding, 2 christenings and a holiday with old friends. I still love my job, but the friends I left university with now earn double my salary, work Mon-Fri and get bank holidays off. From the media they have the idea that we are all drunk layabouts with overinflated egos who earn too much. I am happy enough at the moment to be paid what I get to fly, but I want to be able to aspire to a life of comfort a salary which compensates for the disruption to home life and the level of skill and knowledge we have to maintain and demonstrate on a regular and frequent basis.
BA needs to realise that all the managers in Waterside won't save them if the front line staff decide enough is enough.
Rant over.
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Someone asked for this item of journalism earlier in the thread.
May 27 2001 BUSINESS NEWS The Sunday Times
An American opinion by Irwin Stelzer.
Airlines chase profits on a wing and a prayer
"COME fly with me," Frank Sinatra crooned invitingly on one of his hit records. An attractive offer in the days before anyone worried about deep-vein thrombosis or excessive doses of radiation on over-the-pole flights. And flying with Frank meant a private plane, with no airport hassles and certainly no queues at immigration.
But when an airline issues a similar invitation to come fly this summer, it will be a different story for business travellers and holidaying families. Delays, delays and more delays are in store for most passengers. Last year, more than a quarter of all flights were delayed in America, meaning more than 160m passengers spent some unplanned time in airport lounges or, worse still, on the hard benches of airline terminals. All in all, the 425,000 flights that were delayed in 2000 topped the 1999 record by 20%.
Things are no better in Europe. Lufthansa pilots, unhappy with an offer of a mere 18% wage increase, have already inflicted two strikes on the airline, and last week a business meeting I attended in Italy was disrupted by a quickie strike at Alitalia. As in America, Europe's pilots are fractious and the infrastructure - airports and the air-traffic-control system - is obsolete and overloaded. Add to that a refusal by the European Union's regulatory officials to allow airlines to trade slots and gates so that those scarce facilities can be used most efficiently, and you have a prescription for a summer of progressively lower levels of service.
Europe's pilots are not the only unhappy employees. Pilots in America are also restless. They have noticed that their fellow unionists were able to bring United Airlines to its knees last summer. By working to rule, the pilots so disrupted services that passengers fled to other lines, on routes where alternatives were available, or deluged their congressmen with complaints.
United caved in, and granted increases of up to 45%. That now makes it possible that Delta's pilots may reject the 23% to 39% rise on offer when it comes to a vote next month. After all, one cannot expect a pilot to get along on $300,000 a year.
Airline mechanics are also stepping up their demands. Northwest has already given its mechanics a 24% rise, and may have to offer more to keep its planes serviced and flying this summer. United faces similarly demanding mechanics who may cause a repeat of last summer's woes.
Customers are not alone in their suffering. Higher labour costs, high fuel costs and declining demand for business travel due to the economic slowdown have combined to push America's leading carriers into the red once again. The Economist reports that the seven largest American airlines lost $700m in the first quarter of this year, with only low-cost Southwest and high-service Continental staying in the black.
Sam Buttrick, an airline analyst at UBS Warburg, says fares will have to rise by 10% to offset the wage hikes. "That is inconsistent with the current demand environment," he says.
All this makes the profits performance of British Airways even more remarkable than its quadrupling of profits in 2000 at first seems. The carrier was able to make progress against the industry-wide headwinds for two reasons. First, the airline's chief executive, Rod Eddington, deployed his attractive, outgoing personality to get his ground staff and in-flight crews to abandon their grievances and petulance, and once again concentrate on customer service.
Second, Eddington vigorously implemented a plan initiated by Bob Ayling, his predecessor, to attract more high-fare passengers. BA installed more comfortable seats in business class, allowing passengers to stretch out fully on long flights. International road warriors, as peripatetic executives proudly call themselves, appreciate every amenity that makes life a bit easier.
But even BA cannot fight the market forever. Of particular concern to BA management is that Americans have stopped coming to Britain. Investment bankers and lawyers have no deals to do, and holidaymakers have been led by television images to believe that the portion of the nation's livestock that has not been incinerated will prove lethal if eaten - our concerned friends regularly call us when we are in London to ask whether we have anything to eat.
Things are not likely to get better soon. Although there are bargains to be had by those who book at the last minute, fares are due to rise. Even as service falls.
A US court has surprisingly cleared the way for the big carriers to drive smaller rivals from the field by engaging in predatory price cutting and by adding huge amounts of capacity on any route on which a new entrant rears its head. When the unfortunate newcomer is seen off, fares are often trebled and service reduced. The Bush administration has declined to permit its antitrust enforcers to appeal against this decision.
Some of this bad news is actually not so bad after all. The congestion in the skies and on the runways of America is due to the enormous success of deregulation, which has enabled carriers to juggle fares so as to make air travel more affordable for more people.
The number of people flying to business meetings and to visit grandma has grown from 250m at the time of deregulation in 1978 to 670m last year. And in real terms average fares have fallen by 40%, with people who have flexibility as to travel dates and times getting the greatest benefits. But service has deteriorated recently, and profits are hard to come by.
The six leading carriers argue that the situation would be improved if only they were permitted to merge, perhaps halving the number of big airlines competing for business. Why a reduction in rivalry for customers' favour would lead to an improvement in service remains obscure, at least to this economist. What is needed is more, not less competition.
One way to increase consumer choice and the pressure on incumbent carriers to shape up would be to allow foreign airlines to enter the US market as owners or operators.
That, say America's carriers and their supporters in Congress, is just not on. As always, consumers will bear the cost of this protectionism.
------------------
Magnus
May 27 2001 BUSINESS NEWS The Sunday Times
An American opinion by Irwin Stelzer.
Airlines chase profits on a wing and a prayer
"COME fly with me," Frank Sinatra crooned invitingly on one of his hit records. An attractive offer in the days before anyone worried about deep-vein thrombosis or excessive doses of radiation on over-the-pole flights. And flying with Frank meant a private plane, with no airport hassles and certainly no queues at immigration.
But when an airline issues a similar invitation to come fly this summer, it will be a different story for business travellers and holidaying families. Delays, delays and more delays are in store for most passengers. Last year, more than a quarter of all flights were delayed in America, meaning more than 160m passengers spent some unplanned time in airport lounges or, worse still, on the hard benches of airline terminals. All in all, the 425,000 flights that were delayed in 2000 topped the 1999 record by 20%.
Things are no better in Europe. Lufthansa pilots, unhappy with an offer of a mere 18% wage increase, have already inflicted two strikes on the airline, and last week a business meeting I attended in Italy was disrupted by a quickie strike at Alitalia. As in America, Europe's pilots are fractious and the infrastructure - airports and the air-traffic-control system - is obsolete and overloaded. Add to that a refusal by the European Union's regulatory officials to allow airlines to trade slots and gates so that those scarce facilities can be used most efficiently, and you have a prescription for a summer of progressively lower levels of service.
Europe's pilots are not the only unhappy employees. Pilots in America are also restless. They have noticed that their fellow unionists were able to bring United Airlines to its knees last summer. By working to rule, the pilots so disrupted services that passengers fled to other lines, on routes where alternatives were available, or deluged their congressmen with complaints.
United caved in, and granted increases of up to 45%. That now makes it possible that Delta's pilots may reject the 23% to 39% rise on offer when it comes to a vote next month. After all, one cannot expect a pilot to get along on $300,000 a year.
Airline mechanics are also stepping up their demands. Northwest has already given its mechanics a 24% rise, and may have to offer more to keep its planes serviced and flying this summer. United faces similarly demanding mechanics who may cause a repeat of last summer's woes.
Customers are not alone in their suffering. Higher labour costs, high fuel costs and declining demand for business travel due to the economic slowdown have combined to push America's leading carriers into the red once again. The Economist reports that the seven largest American airlines lost $700m in the first quarter of this year, with only low-cost Southwest and high-service Continental staying in the black.
Sam Buttrick, an airline analyst at UBS Warburg, says fares will have to rise by 10% to offset the wage hikes. "That is inconsistent with the current demand environment," he says.
All this makes the profits performance of British Airways even more remarkable than its quadrupling of profits in 2000 at first seems. The carrier was able to make progress against the industry-wide headwinds for two reasons. First, the airline's chief executive, Rod Eddington, deployed his attractive, outgoing personality to get his ground staff and in-flight crews to abandon their grievances and petulance, and once again concentrate on customer service.
Second, Eddington vigorously implemented a plan initiated by Bob Ayling, his predecessor, to attract more high-fare passengers. BA installed more comfortable seats in business class, allowing passengers to stretch out fully on long flights. International road warriors, as peripatetic executives proudly call themselves, appreciate every amenity that makes life a bit easier.
But even BA cannot fight the market forever. Of particular concern to BA management is that Americans have stopped coming to Britain. Investment bankers and lawyers have no deals to do, and holidaymakers have been led by television images to believe that the portion of the nation's livestock that has not been incinerated will prove lethal if eaten - our concerned friends regularly call us when we are in London to ask whether we have anything to eat.
Things are not likely to get better soon. Although there are bargains to be had by those who book at the last minute, fares are due to rise. Even as service falls.
A US court has surprisingly cleared the way for the big carriers to drive smaller rivals from the field by engaging in predatory price cutting and by adding huge amounts of capacity on any route on which a new entrant rears its head. When the unfortunate newcomer is seen off, fares are often trebled and service reduced. The Bush administration has declined to permit its antitrust enforcers to appeal against this decision.
Some of this bad news is actually not so bad after all. The congestion in the skies and on the runways of America is due to the enormous success of deregulation, which has enabled carriers to juggle fares so as to make air travel more affordable for more people.
The number of people flying to business meetings and to visit grandma has grown from 250m at the time of deregulation in 1978 to 670m last year. And in real terms average fares have fallen by 40%, with people who have flexibility as to travel dates and times getting the greatest benefits. But service has deteriorated recently, and profits are hard to come by.
The six leading carriers argue that the situation would be improved if only they were permitted to merge, perhaps halving the number of big airlines competing for business. Why a reduction in rivalry for customers' favour would lead to an improvement in service remains obscure, at least to this economist. What is needed is more, not less competition.
One way to increase consumer choice and the pressure on incumbent carriers to shape up would be to allow foreign airlines to enter the US market as owners or operators.
That, say America's carriers and their supporters in Congress, is just not on. As always, consumers will bear the cost of this protectionism.
------------------
Magnus
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Well put Pandora. The work we do is not appreciated, and the only way that it can be shown to be appreciated is by a considerable pay rise.
BA are brilliant at throwing away money, eg the tails fiasco. Only this week they have finally closed their final Mainline base away from LHR, in Scotland. £1m pa extra night stopping costs. £2m coversion costs. £1m relocation costs. That's £1000 each to start with.
They'll try and use the press against us. Let's fight back and use the press against them. The shareholders need to know that it's not pilots pay that causes such low returns, it's appalling management.
They'll soon appreciate us when we're out.
BA are brilliant at throwing away money, eg the tails fiasco. Only this week they have finally closed their final Mainline base away from LHR, in Scotland. £1m pa extra night stopping costs. £2m coversion costs. £1m relocation costs. That's £1000 each to start with.
They'll try and use the press against us. Let's fight back and use the press against them. The shareholders need to know that it's not pilots pay that causes such low returns, it's appalling management.
They'll soon appreciate us when we're out.
Guest
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Good rant Pandora! Well said.
Only this week BA are chartering 2 757s to fly our sales "managers" to Jersey for a jolly. I only wish that Channel 4 Dispatches would be there to film what the suits from Waterorld get up to when they are allowed out.
Of course, one can only imagine how happy the people of Jersey will be to see that the only time BA fly from LHR to Jersey is to take its salesmen on a school outing.
Sadly, this is yet another example of BA wasting money. I wonder if they'll be importing camels to liven up the proceedings?
Only this week BA are chartering 2 757s to fly our sales "managers" to Jersey for a jolly. I only wish that Channel 4 Dispatches would be there to film what the suits from Waterorld get up to when they are allowed out.
Of course, one can only imagine how happy the people of Jersey will be to see that the only time BA fly from LHR to Jersey is to take its salesmen on a school outing.
Sadly, this is yet another example of BA wasting money. I wonder if they'll be importing camels to liven up the proceedings?
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how many times have you arrived at heathrow and a bus has been dropping off the next crew. you ask them if they can take you back to compass or the cat lounge, where they are going anyway. NO, it's against the rules, another bus will come to pick you up. Our bus drivers do 5 pick ups a day. It takes 5 minutes but according to their rules they are not allowed to be contacted for half an hour after dropping off. How many managers do you see milling around compass? This is the most inefficient company I have ever seen. We are the most efficient pilots in the industry. Enough talking, time for action.
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Lets hope that the Balpa meetings to discuss this are well attended to show BA that we are serious about this.
If they think that we're not that interested, BA will try and get away with another pathetic offer. Also, we must show Balpa that we are prepared to back them in going for a large rise.
If they think that we're not that interested, BA will try and get away with another pathetic offer. Also, we must show Balpa that we are prepared to back them in going for a large rise.
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You could double pilots' salaries, and in the big picture of airline operating costs, it is still minimal.
The fact that the salary has appeared to be high has always rankled with certain managerial misfits, who have found their way into positions of executive power.
Those individuals have been rewarded with packages for trimming airline costs, which seems paradoxical, seeing they were paid to manage in the first place.
It is a pity that pilots are such a fragmented bunch, industrially speaking, imagining that they can do very well on their own. The fact is, that if they were united in the broader sense, they would do very much better.
The fact that the salary has appeared to be high has always rankled with certain managerial misfits, who have found their way into positions of executive power.
Those individuals have been rewarded with packages for trimming airline costs, which seems paradoxical, seeing they were paid to manage in the first place.
It is a pity that pilots are such a fragmented bunch, industrially speaking, imagining that they can do very well on their own. The fact is, that if they were united in the broader sense, they would do very much better.
Guest
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Mr Uppity,
When you say 'Lets hope that the Balpa meetings to discuss this are well attended to show BA that we are serious about this.' I quite agree mate. Over the last few decades at BA it would seem that the statement is "apathy rules, O.K.?"
Time for apathy is over. We only need to look around us to see what the Flight Crew in other companies are acheiving with
T & C's.
There will only be a small 'window' to achieve just rewards. Let it slip and it will be a long time coming around again.
EVERYBODY OUT! (Enjoy the summer, it only lasts two weeks. About as long as BA will in fact!)
Regards
Exeng
When you say 'Lets hope that the Balpa meetings to discuss this are well attended to show BA that we are serious about this.' I quite agree mate. Over the last few decades at BA it would seem that the statement is "apathy rules, O.K.?"
Time for apathy is over. We only need to look around us to see what the Flight Crew in other companies are acheiving with
T & C's.
There will only be a small 'window' to achieve just rewards. Let it slip and it will be a long time coming around again.
EVERYBODY OUT! (Enjoy the summer, it only lasts two weeks. About as long as BA will in fact!)
Regards
Exeng
Guest
Posts: n/a
A little bird told me that RE has been to see The Daily M@il. Now, this may well be in the spirit of friendly corporate get- togethers, however those of us who have seen a previous ballot in BA will remember the stance that The Daily Thunderer took, and one journalist's role in particular. His pieces about BA pilots were the most disgraceful example of so-called journalism I have ever seen. (OK, Channel 4 is on par).
My suspicion would be that this topic was aired over lunch, and the usual offers of unanimous and vitriolic support given.
Back at The Blue Lagoon, our crew report centre, our new director of Flight Crew is quoted as saying that within 5 years "the CSD will be in overall charge of the aeroplane", and to have defended the remark when challenged. I freely admit that this is hearsay from a company bulletin board elsewhere, however recent events make the five year delay look somewhat optimistic.
Meanwhile, the package of threats and intimidation that was deployed during the last ballot has been dusted off and a series of refinements added that make the middle level ground-based managers in flight operations,(many of whom, I am happy to be on record as saying, work long hard hours in a cramped and over-crowded office for little or no recognition or thanks from the wider airline, who hide from the gritty reality of the daily operation at the Waterworld delusion palace), look fearful of the outcome for the airline as a whole if a dispute occurs.
Our new D of FC is reputed to be keen for the struggle to come, and confident that he can achieve new lows in remuneration against productive hours.
What's that Chinese proverb?
May you live in interesting times?
My suspicion would be that this topic was aired over lunch, and the usual offers of unanimous and vitriolic support given.
Back at The Blue Lagoon, our crew report centre, our new director of Flight Crew is quoted as saying that within 5 years "the CSD will be in overall charge of the aeroplane", and to have defended the remark when challenged. I freely admit that this is hearsay from a company bulletin board elsewhere, however recent events make the five year delay look somewhat optimistic.
Meanwhile, the package of threats and intimidation that was deployed during the last ballot has been dusted off and a series of refinements added that make the middle level ground-based managers in flight operations,(many of whom, I am happy to be on record as saying, work long hard hours in a cramped and over-crowded office for little or no recognition or thanks from the wider airline, who hide from the gritty reality of the daily operation at the Waterworld delusion palace), look fearful of the outcome for the airline as a whole if a dispute occurs.
Our new D of FC is reputed to be keen for the struggle to come, and confident that he can achieve new lows in remuneration against productive hours.
What's that Chinese proverb?
May you live in interesting times?
Guest
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I see both CSD and manager feature highly on the list!!!
http://www.governmentguide.com/issues/dangerjobs.adp
http://www.governmentguide.com/issues/dangerjobs.adp
Guest
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Reading the latest edition of Log, I am pleased to see that BALPA do finally seem to be getting the message that we do want and are due a very large rise. Even Chris Darke seems to be getting the message.
Again, I can only stress how important it is that we reinforce the message at the forthcoming meetings.
If we stand together, the money is ours.
Again, I can only stress how important it is that we reinforce the message at the forthcoming meetings.
If we stand together, the money is ours.
