Pilots Palermo ATR Crash received 10-year sentences
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Judging by the comments on this thread already, I doubt the news article I'm pasting below is accurate. Where did they get that the pilot was praying from??
Italy convicts crash pilot who paused to pray - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 24, 2009
Italy convicts crash pilot who paused to pray - The Irish Times - Tue, Mar 24, 2009
Italy convicts crash pilot who paused to pray
A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact.
A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.
Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down yesterday.
The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted.
Reuters
A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
The 2005 crash at sea off Sicily left survivors swimming for their lives, some clinging to a piece of the fuselage that remained floating after the ATR turbo-prop aircraft splintered upon impact.
A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.
Another five employees of Tuninter, a subsidiary of Tunisair, were sentenced to between eight and nine years in jail by the court, in a verdict handed down yesterday.
The seven accused, who were not in court, will not spend time in jail until the appeals process has been exhausted.
Reuters
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Possibly, but what he was praying for is irrelevant. A professional pilot trained to deal with emergency situations starts praying at a time when he is needed most.
I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion about this on here
I'm amazed there hasn't been more discussion about this on here
Take me downwind
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another outcome of this accident
Deltayankee wrote:
After this accident it became law in Italy that cabin crews have members who speak Italian. It seems that the passengers weren't able to understand the commands from the flight attendants before impact and after. I don't know if they were speaking English to them or not but for ENAC it doesn't matter. Italian speaking crew members are required for flights inbound or outbound in Italy.
PE
The arguments are that they did not warn the pax to prepare for ditching
PE
Last edited by planeenglish; 24th Mar 2009 at 18:05.
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After this accident it became law in Italy that cabin crews have members that speak Italian. It seems that the passengers weren't able to understand the commands from the flight attendants before impact and after. I don't know if they were speaking English to them or not but for ENAC it doesn't matter. Italian speaking crew members are required for flights inbound or outbound in Italy.
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Italian speaking crew members are required for flights inbound or outbound in Italy.
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That Reuters article is appaling, and I'm sad to see the BBC has picked up the same nonsense.
The problem with that statement is that there are a great many of us who know, for a fact, that if Reuters' version of the prosecutor's claim is true (important caveat!), then the prosecutors are lying. The last five minutes of CVR recording (the actual recording, not the transcript) was leaked and was available on the web for a brief while. Lots of people had time to listen to it. As unacceptable as that is, at least it allows us to see right through the prosecution's "case".
From listening to the recording, you can tell a great many things, for instance:
- There was no "praying out loud". That is a downright lie. There are some low whispers, the last few seconds before the ditching, that might be prayers (I don't speak Arabic so I can't tell). But the crew was still flying at the time.
- There is absolutely nothing on the CVR that even with the most absurd degree of imagination could be indicative of "panic".
- The flight crew warned the cabin three times in the last few minutes before the crash, in French and in English ("brace for impact"). The cabin crew, and at least some of the passengers, would have understood the calls.
- The crew worked together very efficiently throughout the event. The captain handled flying and communication, the first officer handled checklists. In particular, it was a pleasant change to actually hear a ditching or forced landing checklist being actioned. That is quite rare; crews faced with an off-airport landing usually get stuck in the first emergency checklist they action, and never progress to the relevant forced landing checklist. This first officer started actioning the ditching checklist on his own initiative as soon as the captain informed ATC they would be ditching. That included taking the relevant actions, and reading out loud the advice on attitude etc from the checklist to the captain.
This conviction is an absolute disgrace.
prosecutors also said the pilot succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport.
From listening to the recording, you can tell a great many things, for instance:
- There was no "praying out loud". That is a downright lie. There are some low whispers, the last few seconds before the ditching, that might be prayers (I don't speak Arabic so I can't tell). But the crew was still flying at the time.
- There is absolutely nothing on the CVR that even with the most absurd degree of imagination could be indicative of "panic".
- The flight crew warned the cabin three times in the last few minutes before the crash, in French and in English ("brace for impact"). The cabin crew, and at least some of the passengers, would have understood the calls.
- The crew worked together very efficiently throughout the event. The captain handled flying and communication, the first officer handled checklists. In particular, it was a pleasant change to actually hear a ditching or forced landing checklist being actioned. That is quite rare; crews faced with an off-airport landing usually get stuck in the first emergency checklist they action, and never progress to the relevant forced landing checklist. This first officer started actioning the ditching checklist on his own initiative as soon as the captain informed ATC they would be ditching. That included taking the relevant actions, and reading out loud the advice on attitude etc from the checklist to the captain.
This conviction is an absolute disgrace.
Last edited by bjornhall; 24th Mar 2009 at 18:46. Reason: caveat
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This conviction is an absolute disgrace.
1) Why the warning was not made also in Italian? At least from the FA?
2) Instead of blaming the judiciary system, why do not blame the defense lawyer, which was not able to provide the proper evidence to prove the innocence? Is part of a judiciary system to accuse someone and to prove or not such accusations, IMHO the blame shall go to the defense lawyer.
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Why the warning was not made also in Italian? At least from the FA?
Instead of blaming the judiciary system, why not blame the defense lawyer?
I also agree that the Reuter's piece was outrageous. There is enough serious news in this story to fill a whole paper and they focus on one racist insinuation. Perhaps the "praying" they describe was nothing more than the "Jesus wept" you might hear in any flight deck when things go pear shaped.
One other thing that struck me about this case is that they seem to assign the blame 50/50 to the captain and F/O. Is this correct, and if it is does this mean that they do not recognize the responsability of the captain in making the decisions?
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here you can listen to the last 5 minutes of the CVR :
YouTube - They were doing their job as professionals till the end
im really angry with Reuters article and the italian court
YouTube - They were doing their job as professionals till the end
im really angry with Reuters article and the italian court
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Just listened to the CVR. The "news" stories are total crap. I can't comment on what the pilots coulda and shoulda done to achieve a better outcome but the Captain and FO appear to have been trying to do their jobs given the extreme circumstances. Isn't the airline to blame for not rostering crews that can communicate effectively with pax? The sentence seems unduly harsh!
This is probably a dumb question....but is there a pilots' association that ever gets involved in trying to bring public attention to something that seems to be an obvious injustice?
This is probably a dumb question....but is there a pilots' association that ever gets involved in trying to bring public attention to something that seems to be an obvious injustice?
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Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail
Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail
A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail - Telegraph
Is that a good enought reason for you??
A Tunisian pilot who paused to pray instead of taking emergency measures before crash-landing his plane, killing 16 people, has been sentenced to 10 years in jail by an Italian court along with his co-pilot.
Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail - Telegraph
Is that a good enought reason for you??
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Pilot who paused to pray in crash-landing sentenced to 10 years in jail
...A fuel-gauge malfunction was partly to blame but prosecutors said the pilot had succumbed to panic, praying out loud instead of following emergency procedures and then opting to crash-land the plane instead trying to reach a nearby airport...
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Italian speaking crew members are required for flights inbound or outbound in Italy.
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Simple answer to this, anyone flying to, from, or overflying Italy, pull your CBs for CVR and FDR.
It's absolutely outrageous this nonsense from quite possibly the most corrupt and awful country in the EU (if not the World).
It's absolutely outrageous this nonsense from quite possibly the most corrupt and awful country in the EU (if not the World).
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I've never heard of that rule, but if it is true then it is up there with the most stupid rules I have ever heard of in my entire life.
If they cannot communicate in an emergency with the SLF safety is compromised.
Otherwise I am the most stupid SLF on earth.
Listening to the CVR I really found the ATC to be obtuse to put it mildly. They were told we are going in, get help moving and they keep coming back with useless babble.
To be fair you have two groups communicating in a second language so this is difficult but I would gives the flight crew much higher marks than ATC.
All things considered I do think the crew did a good job with the emergency
(They are getting one hell of a pass on the fuel uplift - shades of the Gimil glider)
20driver
Interesting side note. This site is always saying the pilots are being shafted with the release of CVR. Anyone one see a bit of hypocrisy in that? Would everyone be happier with an "official" summary of the transcript in this event.
To be fair you have two groups communicating in a second language so this is difficult but I would gives the flight crew much higher marks than ATC.
All things considered I do think the crew did a good job with the emergency
(They are getting one hell of a pass on the fuel uplift - shades of the Gimil glider)
20driver
Interesting side note. This site is always saying the pilots are being shafted with the release of CVR. Anyone one see a bit of hypocrisy in that? Would everyone be happier with an "official" summary of the transcript in this event.
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What is the main reason for having FA? Safety.
If they cannot communicate in an emergency with the SLF safety is compromised.
Otherwise I am the most stupid SLF on earth.
If they cannot communicate in an emergency with the SLF safety is compromised.
Otherwise I am the most stupid SLF on earth.
If the PAX are too thick to understand that, then that is their problem. Do you expect two FAs to speak every language on the planet ??
Think about the logical conclusion to this argument. BA flight LHR-PEK, the rostered FA who speaks Chinese goes sick at the last minute. What do you do, delay the flight as it has 50/50 English/Chinese speakers as PAX ????
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