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CNN Reports FEDEX crash in Tokyo

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CNN Reports FEDEX crash in Tokyo

Old 23rd Mar 2009, 06:26
  #61 (permalink)  
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Oscillation followd by over-compensation???
 
Old 23rd Mar 2009, 07:14
  #62 (permalink)  
 
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From the CX port page info:

RWY 16L/34R is only 7,100' in length and during normal operation it's use is restricetd to A330/A340 and Boeing 777-200/300 ( excluding 300ER ) with an approved slot on this runway.

Captains only Landing, no contamination allowed. etc

So.........the 777-200's AND 300's ( except ER ) CAN use it WITH an approved slot.

This is obviously CX, but is approved by the NRT authorities and would apply to all operators.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 07:18
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It's hard to see in this footage but it seems like the left wing fails fairly early in the proceedings. Could this be a repeat of the HKG and EWR accidents?
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 07:33
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A bounced landing must be recovered from first before allowing a big jet to settle back. Essential to get power on instantly and stop speed falling and hold attitude and stay airborne to collect your wits before deciding either go around or fly it back on. But the landing causes big speed loss and you are airborne too slow with the nose falling away from you into a fatal dive we see. Very unfortunate.
Getting the power on instantly is a problem (so I'm told by those that fly the MD11), not for spool-up time, but the rather pronounced nose down pitch when the number two engine spools-up, and combine this with the known poor pitch response with the reduced horizontal stab/elevator assembly size (versus the DC10 design)...can be a handful in strong winds, 'tis reported.

It was a wild, wild wind this morning. Hard to put anything down in that
Indeed, it can get nasty at NRT, gusts to 45 knots or more, not easy.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 08:20
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A wider view of the landing: YouTube - FedEx MD-11 crash landing at RJAA
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 08:42
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Metar Rjaa 222100z 30013g28kt 260v330 9999 Few020 13/m01 Q0998 Nosig=
Metar Rjaa 222130z 32026g40kt 9999 Few020 12/m02 Q0999 Ws R34l Nosig=
Metar Rjaa 222200z 31026g40kt 9999 Few020 12/m02 Q1001 Nosig=
Metar Rjaa 222230z 30018kt 9999 Few030 12/m03 Q1001 Ws R34r Tempo 31020g30kt=

Taf Rjaa 222038z 2221/2324 31014kt 9999 Few030 Tempo 2221/2306 31020g30kt Becmg 2309/2312 01008kt=
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 08:59
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There was speculation on here that the nose gear collapsed, its very evident in this selection of still images that this was not the case.

Image Gallery on Sky News.com

Dreadful accident and shows what the weather can do.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:01
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FedEx MD11 crash

The touchdown is a apparently result of rather violent pitch-down at very low altitude. With gusty winds 30-40 degr off the ruway it is likely to be a windshear. Autoland mode or manual flying, a recovery from a situation like this might prove impossible.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:04
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Gordonroxburgh, it's evident that it was a main gear failure, but that wasn't the reason, but the outcome. First fails the main gear, the left wing touches the ground, fireball, aircraft turns upside down and slides along.

I guess this thread will become another 100-pager like the AMS-THY one, just because people are speculating why the wreckage lies the way it does - oh dear...!
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:08
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MD-11 At NRT

A lot of interesting thoughts here and all true. Having flown the MD-11 for about 5 years and having been to NRT many times, it is one of the more difficult airports due to the treacherous winds that always seem to blow there. However, what no one seems to take into account are the autospoilers. The video "seems" to show that they were on the ground long enough on the initial touchdown for the spoilers to have extended (nose grear touchdown-throttles idle). Another idioscyncracy of the MD-11 is a pitch up tendency with spoiler extention. My thought is that after the hard landing and subsequent nose gear coming down too hard and bouncing back up with the added pitch up of spoiler extention, perhaps they tried a go around. If they had tried that a stall would have been inevitable.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:13
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Post#73

GG: That video is misleading because it doesn't show the first landing, only the second contact after the first bounce. For a better view of the complete incident see the video in Post # 7, now embedded.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:19
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What a pity it didn't remain right side up
Is not the first MD11 that does not remain side up...is this aircraft prone to end up upside down more than other models?
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:20
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Looked like windshear to me .
The nose went down hard...way too hard .
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:30
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Faro dc-10 similarities?

nasty crash at tokyo, poor crew.very sad...

in dec 1992 a dc-10 crashed on landing at Faro Portugal and rolled over too...55 died.
so did the united dc-10 at sioux city...(but they only had thrust for control)

i know this was a md-11 yesterday which has a small stab but it seems a pattern in c/w or h/w landing accidents with this derivative of the dc-10
EWR and HKG md-11 accidents also as mentioned earlier.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:42
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Interesting HQ video of FedEx MD11 in crosswind landing at Narita. Shows just how hard all the flight control surfaces (including the elevator) have to work for a stable approach in stong winds.

YouTube - Crosswind Landing - by FedEx Express McDonnell Douglas MD-11(F) ?N587FE?
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 09:53
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What other aircraft has this continual history of cartwheeling and overturning on landing ?

It's notable that of the three somewhat-comparable widebody types that came along in the early to mid 1990s (MD-11, B777, A330), the latter two generally remain in front line service with their original purchasers, while the MD-11 was sold off prematurely by almost all of them. Very few of them remain in passenger service now, despite it being a modern design, and most have been sold off cheaply to cargo operators.

The public story is that the MD-11s were sold off, at some considerable financial loss to the original operators, because its efficiency didn't come up to expectations. But behind the scenes are many who quietly told their boards of directors that as a large-capacity passenger aircraft, with its poor handling capabilities on landing, it was a risk too far.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 10:02
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WHBM

The MD-11 wasn't really a modern design. McDDouglas tried to do a quick and cheap derivative of the DC-10. It ended up being neither quick (many delays) nor cheap.

By the time it entered service the 777 and A340 were well under way and were much more efficient: lower weight and operating cost.

Most potential (and existing) customers had lost confidence in McDD by then. Any handling difficulties were just an extra nail....
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 10:09
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In Flight Safetys video you can actually see the nose rising when the spoilers deploy.

Interesting.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 10:24
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Horrific. The 2nd touchdown was in a very nose down attitude onto the nose gear. As several have said, the MD11 does seem to have a habit of flipping onto it's back on crash landings (HKG springs to mind)- and even the sioux city DC10 did the same.

The DC10 was a bad design from the start with the cargo door failures (paris crash) and running all 3 hydraulic lines past engine number TWO (when engine no.TWO blew up in the sioux city aircraft it took out all the hydraulics).

Last edited by Propellerhead; 23rd Mar 2009 at 10:44.
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Old 23rd Mar 2009, 10:26
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Propellerhead,

Not to be pedantic but it was the #2 engine the hyd lines passed by (the engine in the tail)
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