DAT ("the new and better" SN) to start flying tonight
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DAT ("the new and better" SN) to start flying tonight
According to several sources DAT will start flying tonight, first flight being to GVA @ 1800!
After management and the union signed new agreements early friday morning, the curator was the last person to stand between the "go around", and this afternoon he gave his approval.
For the moment, DAT will start with it's original fleet of 32 Avro's, if all goes well, 8 319's and 8 330's will follow.
Naturaly (?), the pilot's are taking the biggest pay cut.
Depending position and seniority between 25 and 35 percent.
For cabin crew all stays more or less the same.
At least we still have a job.
Let's make it work!!!
After management and the union signed new agreements early friday morning, the curator was the last person to stand between the "go around", and this afternoon he gave his approval.
For the moment, DAT will start with it's original fleet of 32 Avro's, if all goes well, 8 319's and 8 330's will follow.
Naturaly (?), the pilot's are taking the biggest pay cut.
Depending position and seniority between 25 and 35 percent.
For cabin crew all stays more or less the same.
At least we still have a job.
Let's make it work!!!
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Good news, indeed. As I said before DAT were the only profitable arm of the scrambled Sabena mess. It's good to see something survive out of the chaos that existed there.
Regarding pay cuts, I'm sure most would gladly receive a 25 - 30% cut, rather than a 100% paycut.
The Guv is again right on this one; it was the unions that killed the golden goose. They want to march and protest? Bit like the case of 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted'! Sad, but true.
Regarding pay cuts, I'm sure most would gladly receive a 25 - 30% cut, rather than a 100% paycut.
The Guv is again right on this one; it was the unions that killed the golden goose. They want to march and protest? Bit like the case of 'shutting the stable door after the horse has bolted'! Sad, but true.
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Interesting one for the legally minded amongst us.
Sabena is being liquidated. This means the following:
1) Its assets are to be sold off to the highest bidder (this includes DAT as a wholly owned subsidiary)
and
2) The Sabena two letter designator (SN) and three digit accounting code (082) are correspondingly no longer valid.
As the creditors have not been consulted on the sale of DAT or transfer of any other assets (including asset stripping by SN by handing over traffic rights and slots to its subnsidiary - assets which rightfully belong to the creditors); how can DAT operate?
Also, how can DAT operate under SN flight numbers - especially as it has its own designator (QG) - as surely by operating as a Sabena flight it is leaving itself open to having the aircraft seized by creditors (eg Eurocontrol, airports, handling companies etc).
Looks rather badly thought out to me - I suspect there will be tears before bedtime with this one!
Sabena is being liquidated. This means the following:
1) Its assets are to be sold off to the highest bidder (this includes DAT as a wholly owned subsidiary)
and
2) The Sabena two letter designator (SN) and three digit accounting code (082) are correspondingly no longer valid.
As the creditors have not been consulted on the sale of DAT or transfer of any other assets (including asset stripping by SN by handing over traffic rights and slots to its subnsidiary - assets which rightfully belong to the creditors); how can DAT operate?
Also, how can DAT operate under SN flight numbers - especially as it has its own designator (QG) - as surely by operating as a Sabena flight it is leaving itself open to having the aircraft seized by creditors (eg Eurocontrol, airports, handling companies etc).
Looks rather badly thought out to me - I suspect there will be tears before bedtime with this one!
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You shouyld know Guvnor that under belgian law a bankruptcy does not allow the creditors to just walk in and take whatever they want.
After a bankruptcy the management is replaced by what is called a curator.
His main task is to sell all assets of the company to compensate for its depts, but unlike in other countries he also has to take into account the interests of the employees as well. A scenario where for instance ryanair would buy DAT just to close it down is legally impossible in Belgium, even if they would like to pay 10 times as much as the new investors will do.
After a bankruptcy the management is replaced by what is called a curator.
His main task is to sell all assets of the company to compensate for its depts, but unlike in other countries he also has to take into account the interests of the employees as well. A scenario where for instance ryanair would buy DAT just to close it down is legally impossible in Belgium, even if they would like to pay 10 times as much as the new investors will do.
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Guvnor,
The creditors HAVE been consulted, in fact, awaiting their approval is the one and only reason that DAT didn't fly on friday allready.
Besides, I think a flying company with profitable expetations is worth a whole lot more than one sitting on the ground, don't you think???
The SN number...they are working on that one, it's just that SN is (how silly it may sound) commercially more attractive for the moment.
But, I have got a question for you: do you think a couple of euro's for the creditors more important than about 1000 to 2000 jobs? (not counting indirect jobs).
If the creditors would not allow this, it would mean AT LEAST another 4000 people on the street, including 400 pilots. I mean, who would buy a bankrupt DAT in these days anyway?
Another fact: If one would buy DAT a week ago, they would have to pay it's employers their orriginal wages (stupid, I know, but Belgium law!).
Now, the pilot's have given up 35 % of their pay, in order to make this work (and believe me, at this company, we want to make it work!).
So, when do you think DAT was worth more, a week ago or as from 1825 lcl?
The Curator will make sure that DAT is being paid for eventually, that's his job.
Although I agree with you often, I would like to ask you to give us a break, we are trying real hard here!
"one for the money, two for the show..."
The creditors HAVE been consulted, in fact, awaiting their approval is the one and only reason that DAT didn't fly on friday allready.
Besides, I think a flying company with profitable expetations is worth a whole lot more than one sitting on the ground, don't you think???
The SN number...they are working on that one, it's just that SN is (how silly it may sound) commercially more attractive for the moment.
But, I have got a question for you: do you think a couple of euro's for the creditors more important than about 1000 to 2000 jobs? (not counting indirect jobs).
If the creditors would not allow this, it would mean AT LEAST another 4000 people on the street, including 400 pilots. I mean, who would buy a bankrupt DAT in these days anyway?
Another fact: If one would buy DAT a week ago, they would have to pay it's employers their orriginal wages (stupid, I know, but Belgium law!).
Now, the pilot's have given up 35 % of their pay, in order to make this work (and believe me, at this company, we want to make it work!).
So, when do you think DAT was worth more, a week ago or as from 1825 lcl?
The Curator will make sure that DAT is being paid for eventually, that's his job.
Although I agree with you often, I would like to ask you to give us a break, we are trying real hard here!
"one for the money, two for the show..."
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Well done DAT!!!!
As a Brit who worked there for nearly 3 years, I say well done and good luck. I always had faith that this part of Sabena would survive. Why? Because it works!
It makes me sad (and angry) to see some of the **@!it comments on this forum about the situation out there. Belgium does have its problems (who doesn't ?) but it's like saying all muslims are terrorists. These guys always had the ****ty end of the stick with terms and conditions compared to their "mainline" peers and were very much looked down on as a poor relation.
But, what goes around, comes around, and these guys are getting what they deserve.
DAT "the new and better" SN ? It always was!
It lived in the real world and now they are getting the reward.
P.S. The contract reductions. Do they apply to SN guys going to DAT or to the existing DAT guys (who had worse pay & conditions anyway)?
As a Brit who worked there for nearly 3 years, I say well done and good luck. I always had faith that this part of Sabena would survive. Why? Because it works!
It makes me sad (and angry) to see some of the **@!it comments on this forum about the situation out there. Belgium does have its problems (who doesn't ?) but it's like saying all muslims are terrorists. These guys always had the ****ty end of the stick with terms and conditions compared to their "mainline" peers and were very much looked down on as a poor relation.
But, what goes around, comes around, and these guys are getting what they deserve.
DAT "the new and better" SN ? It always was!
It lived in the real world and now they are getting the reward.
P.S. The contract reductions. Do they apply to SN guys going to DAT or to the existing DAT guys (who had worse pay & conditions anyway)?
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Good to see DAT up and running, did nearly 2 years there also and apart from the usual Contract rumbles mainly due to the used pilot salespeople who held it, was the good fun.
Then our fleet had onlt 7/8 crews and it worked well, good time off, plenty of flying and fine people to work with. Some of the F/O's went to KLM as a better deal as to get to SN you had to be born in the SN camp. Some of that lot really did look down on DAT and activley worked to prevent those F/O's getting in to SN.
Go for it DAT.
Then our fleet had onlt 7/8 crews and it worked well, good time off, plenty of flying and fine people to work with. Some of the F/O's went to KLM as a better deal as to get to SN you had to be born in the SN camp. Some of that lot really did look down on DAT and activley worked to prevent those F/O's getting in to SN.
Go for it DAT.
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Although DAT only made a profit because Sabena gave them a lot of money for every flying hour, regardless of passengers carried, they are a hard working bunch of people and deserve to succeed.
Good luck.
Good luck.
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Lostinbru,
The reductions (25-35%) are for DAT cockpit personnel.
At this moment they haven't hired anyone from Sabena mainline, but if they do they will have to accept the new wages.
For cockpit it will mean AT LEAST 35% pay-cut; for cabin: Wages at DAT remain the same, but at SN CC earned 30% more, so IF DAT is going to hire them, they will have to take the pay-cut.
thanks for the support guys & girls
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: jumbolina ]
The reductions (25-35%) are for DAT cockpit personnel.
At this moment they haven't hired anyone from Sabena mainline, but if they do they will have to accept the new wages.
For cockpit it will mean AT LEAST 35% pay-cut; for cabin: Wages at DAT remain the same, but at SN CC earned 30% more, so IF DAT is going to hire them, they will have to take the pay-cut.
thanks for the support guys & girls [ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: jumbolina ]
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rather ironic that the only routes DAT are doing are the ones VEX now do in their own right, surely they would want to do routes they have no competition on for ALL Belgian airlines sakes, ie VEX and DAT. why do LHR, FCO, BCN, ZURICH etc, while there is no competition on vienna, venice, paris, marseille, etc. stupid or what!
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Ace, rather interesting, were do you get this info??
DAT is not flying to BCN, FCO, LHR.
VEX is, under a SN flight number and a VEX nr
In fact, they did fly to Venice today
If you would have studied the departure screen more carefully, you would have probably figured it out yourself
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: jumbolina ]
DAT is not flying to BCN, FCO, LHR.
VEX is, under a SN flight number and a VEX nr
In fact, they did fly to Venice today
If you would have studied the departure screen more carefully, you would have probably figured it out yourself
[ 11 November 2001: Message edited by: jumbolina ]
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sorry, but youre wrong, they flew 3 pax into LHR on saturday pm with their RJ and flew 1 out this morning. they start tommorrow all ex SN flights (85 destinations) using SN assets, slots, flight numbers etc, so much for companies trying to get there money out of SN as DAT using it now!! with no pax and costin a fortune now!!
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EICAS
DAT have signalled they will commence LBA ops with a 2 x daily frequency, probably with an ATR72. The start date is a bit 'fluid', could be tomorrow but might be later in the week. bmi do start tomorrow, 3 x daily with an -145. The a/c to be used has been released from CDG duties - one of the LH 146 was ferried in this afternoon to take over this particular route; for how long, I'm not sure?
682
DAT have signalled they will commence LBA ops with a 2 x daily frequency, probably with an ATR72. The start date is a bit 'fluid', could be tomorrow but might be later in the week. bmi do start tomorrow, 3 x daily with an -145. The a/c to be used has been released from CDG duties - one of the LH 146 was ferried in this afternoon to take over this particular route; for how long, I'm not sure?
682
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Well done DAT! There is a terrific enthusiasm and dedication within this airline that I am sure will change people's perceptions of european airlines around. Ryanair and Easyjet will not be the only shows in town as far as lean and mean operators go nor will they have it all their own way within europe.
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thewwIIace, you are stirring a bit hard...reduce the destinations to 18 and you will be very close to reallity.
EICAS V18.5, if you would follow the proceedings a bit closer, such nonsense comments would not be necessary.
Always remember that there are people involved who did not support the SN-mainline strikes. Also, this startup helps to keep a lot of flight crew from flooding the market
On pax view, why should someone pay SMB 75% for another ticket, if there is a valid ticket on hands....
EICAS V18.5, if you would follow the proceedings a bit closer, such nonsense comments would not be necessary.
Always remember that there are people involved who did not support the SN-mainline strikes. Also, this startup helps to keep a lot of flight crew from flooding the market
On pax view, why should someone pay SMB 75% for another ticket, if there is a valid ticket on hands....