Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Remember the target audience!
Brace for Impact was made for those without any knowledge of aviation--the general public.
Having been involved at the production level for smaller but similar projects, I was the one asking the pros for ‘dumbed-down' answers when I felt the language/explanation was over the heads of the viewers. I can assure you that’s what happened here.
At the end of the day, did the audience understand what happened? Were they left with a positive impression of the industry and those in it? IMHO they were. (My petty criticism is that I found the narration overly dramatic. The event itself and related interviews were dramatic enough and didn’t need any boost in that direction.)
Having been involved at the production level for smaller but similar projects, I was the one asking the pros for ‘dumbed-down' answers when I felt the language/explanation was over the heads of the viewers. I can assure you that’s what happened here.
At the end of the day, did the audience understand what happened? Were they left with a positive impression of the industry and those in it? IMHO they were. (My petty criticism is that I found the narration overly dramatic. The event itself and related interviews were dramatic enough and didn’t need any boost in that direction.)
Last edited by Latearrival; 11th Jan 2010 at 21:22.
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If anyone has access to complete NTSB reports, the document for the Southern DC-9 (New Hope, GA, 1977) is DCA77AA015.
Embry-Riddle's library has it here.
Having been involved at the production level for smaller but similar projects, I was the one asking the pros for ‘dumbed-down' answers when I felt the language/explanation was over the heads of the viewers. I can assure you that’s what happened here.
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"Brace for Impact" TV show
I have just watched the one hour Discovery Channel program about the USAir flight into the Hudson river. Apparently this flight was operated without cabin crew!! There is no mention of their contribution to saving the lives of the 150 passengers.
Does anyone know why they were omitted??
Does anyone know why they were omitted??
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Hi,
Wonder what will be the comments by Discovery Channel program viewers about airliners accidents in 30 years from now .. when they will ear about the cabin crew and nothing about the flightdeck crew ? 
I have just watched the one hour Discovery Channel program about the USAir flight into the Hudson river. Apparently this flight was operated without cabin crew!! There is no mention of their contribution to saving the lives of the 150 passengers.
Does anyone know why they were omitted??
Does anyone know why they were omitted??
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The NTSB powerplant group report is online. No surprises as far as I'm concerned.
Barit1
Thanks
Good thorough report
Little hope for the pilots to restart these engines and get any power out of them ... too much internal damage
The NTSB powerplant group report is online. No surprises as far as I'm concerned
Good thorough report
Little hope for the pilots to restart these engines and get any power out of them ... too much internal damage
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N1EPR
Perhaps I saw a different show, but I heard Sully talking about the cabin crew. He said BRACE... then said he could hear the cabin crew though the door shouting their commands... and later said something about what a good job they did getting the pax off. So yes, the cabin Crew were present!!!
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Beer bet
lomapaseo
In post #1754 we had a beer bet. The photos substantiate my claim of HP system damage; the LP damage, of itself, would not have made the donks inop, but the shrapnel released caused much downstream distress.
I fully intend to collect next time I'm in chilly FL. Just leave the beer out on the porch -- that will be sufficiently cool.
(Thank you, global warming...)
In post #1754 we had a beer bet. The photos substantiate my claim of HP system damage; the LP damage, of itself, would not have made the donks inop, but the shrapnel released caused much downstream distress.
I fully intend to collect next time I'm in chilly FL. Just leave the beer out on the porch -- that will be sufficiently cool.
(Thank you, global warming...)
Barit1
I certainly remember the beer bet and I do agree with you about the significance of the HPC damage as well as the insignificance of the booster-lpc damage (by-itself).
However. The fan blade rubstrip damage is significant by itself, but probably was significantly affected by the the HPC in the final outcome. At any rate I will buy the first round should you make it to Florida
lomapaseo
In post #1754 we had a beer bet. The photos substantiate my claim of HP system damage; the LP damage, of itself, would not have made the donks inop, but the shrapnel released caused much downstream distress.
I fully intend to collect next time I'm in chilly FL. Just leave the beer out on the porch -- that will be sufficiently cool.
(Thank you, global warming...)
In post #1754 we had a beer bet. The photos substantiate my claim of HP system damage; the LP damage, of itself, would not have made the donks inop, but the shrapnel released caused much downstream distress.
I fully intend to collect next time I'm in chilly FL. Just leave the beer out on the porch -- that will be sufficiently cool.
(Thank you, global warming...)
However. The fan blade rubstrip damage is significant by itself, but probably was significantly affected by the the HPC in the final outcome. At any rate I will buy the first round should you make it to Florida
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Robert, Mayday may be the official emergency call and works well throughout the world. In the US however it is a formality to be correct. Declaring an emergency does the same thing and I have heard it many times in my long career. Never mayday except at the Reno Air Races when they blow an engine. I only had two emergencies and never once have said mayday. 23,000 hrs and no maydays calls is pretty average in the US. ICAO is not so laid back.
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"Perhaps I saw a different show..."
I believe you did. What was originally being discussed was a very recent--like last week--TLC (The Learning Channel) show about the ditching. You're referring to a Discovery Channel program that was broadcast some time ago.
What is it that the Brits say? Chimps and cheeps? Talk and wheeze? Chalk and cheese? Ah, that's the one...
I believe you did. What was originally being discussed was a very recent--like last week--TLC (The Learning Channel) show about the ditching. You're referring to a Discovery Channel program that was broadcast some time ago.
What is it that the Brits say? Chimps and cheeps? Talk and wheeze? Chalk and cheese? Ah, that's the one...
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The Engines.
I was very interested to see the images of the torn down engines in the Engine Group Report. Clearly these donks had suffered tremendous insult and yet, though they collapsed into an 'idle but not' state where they were neither use nor ornament, they didn't, in fact, stop?
From the point of view of an engineer - non aero - I have always regarded modern high bypass fan jets as the most beautiful example of almost effortless power. At the same time they are - compared to the fabulously intricate and fragile, double row radials of the 'Connie', DC-6 and Stratocruiser - practically bomb proof.
Having said that, looking at three instances of multi engine failure - all of them 100% survived - what is striking is the extreme 'gradient' of what was necessary to stop both/all the engines. I suppose we could regard 'Sully's' engines as the far end of mechanical trauma; a number (more than one each?) quite large birds ingested while the engines were at high stress.
Somewhere midpoint is the fantastic amount of terminal damage suffered by the RB211s of the BA 747 over Jakarta, after swallowing a volcano. The even more striking thing about those engines was; the crew got them started again. I don't suppose for a second that they ever flew again?
Finally, there is the BA038 rollback. Although the final results are not yet in - as I understand it - all it took was a peculiar conjunction of circumstances and water, that prevented those engines responding to an urgent requirement for power.
Sorry for the diversion, but those photgraphs do give one furiously to think. By the way, I take it that the reason why both engines lost their AGBs and associated 'peripherals', is because that is right underneath the engine and likely to be the first thing to get swept away?
Roger.
From the point of view of an engineer - non aero - I have always regarded modern high bypass fan jets as the most beautiful example of almost effortless power. At the same time they are - compared to the fabulously intricate and fragile, double row radials of the 'Connie', DC-6 and Stratocruiser - practically bomb proof.
Having said that, looking at three instances of multi engine failure - all of them 100% survived - what is striking is the extreme 'gradient' of what was necessary to stop both/all the engines. I suppose we could regard 'Sully's' engines as the far end of mechanical trauma; a number (more than one each?) quite large birds ingested while the engines were at high stress.
Somewhere midpoint is the fantastic amount of terminal damage suffered by the RB211s of the BA 747 over Jakarta, after swallowing a volcano. The even more striking thing about those engines was; the crew got them started again. I don't suppose for a second that they ever flew again?
Finally, there is the BA038 rollback. Although the final results are not yet in - as I understand it - all it took was a peculiar conjunction of circumstances and water, that prevented those engines responding to an urgent requirement for power.
Sorry for the diversion, but those photgraphs do give one furiously to think. By the way, I take it that the reason why both engines lost their AGBs and associated 'peripherals', is because that is right underneath the engine and likely to be the first thing to get swept away?
Roger.
Hudson River Ditching
Hi Folks,
On a slightly different thread to the ditching it'self & the aftermath, I have just finished reading Chesley Sullenberger's biography `Highest Duty`. A number of you may have already read the book as well, but it has only just arrived in this part of the world.
I found the book First Class in all respects, it details the many personal & family difficulties that Sullenberger had to deal with long before the Hudson ditching. The book goes into just the right level of detail in all the issues covered, enough information for aviation & non aviation people.
For me the stand out point is, how all the way through the book, Sullenberger is at pains to stress, that the successful outcome of the ditching was a united Crew effort & that they not just him well deserve all the praise. He also goes to some length to thank & praise the ATC Officer & other personnel & the efforts of the rescue craft who lifted the pax & crew off.
For me, a great book, very well written with great sensitivity throughout, I would reccommend it to anyone.
A safe 2010 to us all.
On a slightly different thread to the ditching it'self & the aftermath, I have just finished reading Chesley Sullenberger's biography `Highest Duty`. A number of you may have already read the book as well, but it has only just arrived in this part of the world.
I found the book First Class in all respects, it details the many personal & family difficulties that Sullenberger had to deal with long before the Hudson ditching. The book goes into just the right level of detail in all the issues covered, enough information for aviation & non aviation people.
For me the stand out point is, how all the way through the book, Sullenberger is at pains to stress, that the successful outcome of the ditching was a united Crew effort & that they not just him well deserve all the praise. He also goes to some length to thank & praise the ATC Officer & other personnel & the efforts of the rescue craft who lifted the pax & crew off.
For me, a great book, very well written with great sensitivity throughout, I would reccommend it to anyone.
A safe 2010 to us all.
SLF query: Is the ditched plane a hull loss, or will it fly again?
depends not necessarily it happened with a DC-8 that was returned to service,..there's already a link to that on this huge thread
PA
edit all SLF for true appreciation,..should also see Al Haynes
depends not necessarily it happened with a DC-8 that was returned to service,..there's already a link to that on this huge thread
PA
edit all SLF for true appreciation,..should also see Al Haynes
SLF query: Is the ditched plane a hull loss, or will it fly again?
Edmund
Edmund
Longer answer:
Depends on several factors.
Most operators would rather have the insurance value and invest the money in a newer or better product for their routes (like many of us would do with our cars after an accident).
The inusurance valuation considers repairability including costs.
Sometimes the above factors conflict ex: the operator doesn't want to keep a ghost ship in their fleet as it could put their passengers off from flyng it. It's like who won, the geese or the plane?
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SLF query: Is the ditched plane a hull loss, or will it fly again?
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And the most amazing outcome from this ditching ...
See this article Year after Hudson River jet landing, fear remains on the 1-year anniversary of the ditching. What is noted in this news article is:
"The group surprised some observers with what they have chosen not to do: No one on board the plane has sued the airline.
"Amazing," said Justin Green, an attorney with Kreindler & Kreindler, a law firm that specializes in air disasters. "
"The group surprised some observers with what they have chosen not to do: No one on board the plane has sued the airline.
"Amazing," said Justin Green, an attorney with Kreindler & Kreindler, a law firm that specializes in air disasters. "
"The group surprised some observers with what they have chosen not to do: No one on board the plane has sued the airline.
I'm sure the ambulance chasing attorneys must be furious with Sully and his crew. "Extreme competence in the face of adversity" is of no use to them whatsoever. How will they put th kids through school?