Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Nov 2006
Posts: 896
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From: SoCalif
F/O Jeff Skiles
After a full day and night of idol worship of Capt. Sullenberger in the US media, CNN's "Lou Dobbs Tonight" last night did a skillful job of praising the rest of the crew. IIRC, F/O Skiles has 26 years flying, and was no doubt a Captain in better prior years. His father was interviewed, as was Sully's wife.
The lack of life vests is puzzling.
Did the Fright Deck not tell the cabin crew they were going to ditch?
Had AWE (America West, owner of USAir) removed the life vests to save weight, depending instead on the seat cushions?
All I heard from SLF interviews was BRACE BRACE BRACE.
Lou also had in his studio the two SCUBA police who rescued a woman in the water clinging to the ropes of a ferry.
Would you rather have the union mandated senior Fright Attendants, or like the bankrupt airline in Mexico: reach age 26 and fired?
GB
The lack of life vests is puzzling.
Did the Fright Deck not tell the cabin crew they were going to ditch?
Had AWE (America West, owner of USAir) removed the life vests to save weight, depending instead on the seat cushions?
All I heard from SLF interviews was BRACE BRACE BRACE.
Lou also had in his studio the two SCUBA police who rescued a woman in the water clinging to the ropes of a ferry.
Would you rather have the union mandated senior Fright Attendants, or like the bankrupt airline in Mexico: reach age 26 and fired?
GB
Joined: Jun 2003
Posts: 497
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From: Near LOACH intersection
"Would you rather have the union mandated senior Fright Attendants, or like the bankrupt airline in Mexico: reach age 26 and fired?"
I prefer the ones most likely to perform their duties in an emergency. Unfortunately, union membership, nor being senior is any guarantor of anything
I prefer the ones most likely to perform their duties in an emergency. Unfortunately, union membership, nor being senior is any guarantor of anything
Joined: Apr 2008
Posts: 81
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From: merseyside
buoyancy a major factor in survivability
I am very curious as to how much would an engine on this type of Airbus weigh and what difference in weight there would be between an aircraft with engines attached and an aircraft minus its engines ?
Also do people know if Airbus or Boeing ever floated aircraft during testing & development to try & guage aproxmimate floating times with or without engines ?
And was the reason that aircraft engines where designed & fitted so that they shear off during an impact due to the fact that an aircraft would sink much faster with them attached ?
I just can't help thinking that if those engines stayed attached that the aircraft would have sunk imediatly ?
So i guess buoyancy was definatly a factor in the survivability of this incident .
Also do people know if Airbus or Boeing ever floated aircraft during testing & development to try & guage aproxmimate floating times with or without engines ?
And was the reason that aircraft engines where designed & fitted so that they shear off during an impact due to the fact that an aircraft would sink much faster with them attached ?
I just can't help thinking that if those engines stayed attached that the aircraft would have sunk imediatly ?
So i guess buoyancy was definatly a factor in the survivability of this incident .
Joined: Jul 2000
Posts: 18
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From: Texas
Originally Posted by A37575
For heaven's sake the the cockpit is not a democracy nor is it a committee decision. In such a time critical situation the captain is empowered by law to be in sole command. "Agreeing together" before the captain ditches the aircraft is not CRM or TEM and the time is well overdue for some first officers to realise that their task is to give support where the captain requires it - not to demand a committe approach to every action or decision the captain may choose to make.
I am going to agree with A37575, The Cockpit is not a Democracy, it is a Benevolent Dictatorship. It belongs to the Captain and he alone.
For heaven's sake the the cockpit is not a democracy nor is it a committee decision. In such a time critical situation the captain is empowered by law to be in sole command. "Agreeing together" before the captain ditches the aircraft is not CRM or TEM and the time is well overdue for some first officers to realise that their task is to give support where the captain requires it - not to demand a committe approach to every action or decision the captain may choose to make.
I am going to agree with A37575, The Cockpit is not a Democracy, it is a Benevolent Dictatorship. It belongs to the Captain and he alone.
Joined: Feb 2002
Posts: 195
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From: Elysion
Does the responsibilty for your passengers end when they have exited the aircraft? What impact will the physical condition and ability, or lack thereof, of the crew have on the final outcome?
Something to think about when seeing the charge of the not-so-light-brigade at some carriers.
Rhetorically he asked.
Something to think about when seeing the charge of the not-so-light-brigade at some carriers.
Rhetorically he asked.
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 175
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From: Karup, Denmark
"Air Disaster vol. 1, Macarthur Job", ISBN 1 875671 11 0. (It's a book!) Chapter 8: "I may have to ditch this aircraft". DC-9, May 2, 1970. "At the time of the ditching the cloudbase was low, it was raining heavily, and visibility was only a little over half a kilometre. ... Levelling off Capt. DeWitt positioned the aircraft directly over the crest of a swell, laying off a small amount of crosswind drift to fly along the crest as he progressively reduced speed and height. ... he raised the nose about 6 degrees and flew the DC-9 onto the swell at about 90 knots." It can also be done in bad weather and rough water. Highly recommended - all 4 volumes.
Joined: Jan 2006
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From: Near Glasgow
About five years ago,I flew with a U.S. low-cost carrier (B737) from Reno to San Francisco and noticed that there was no mention of life-jackets during the Safety Briefing. I couldn't locate "my" life-vest under the seat so politely asked a crew member where they were and was told, "You got it right under your butt honey. It's the seat cushion that you take with you if we all gotta take a swim."
Obviously it saves weight,hence fuel burn etc not carrying jackets. Please nobody tell Mr. O'Leary, it's a money-saving wheeze!! I ain't gonna swim with no life-jacket on!
A thousand times "well done" to Captain, First Officer and Cabin Crew.
Obviously it saves weight,hence fuel burn etc not carrying jackets. Please nobody tell Mr. O'Leary, it's a money-saving wheeze!! I ain't gonna swim with no life-jacket on!
A thousand times "well done" to Captain, First Officer and Cabin Crew.
Joined: Dec 2005
Posts: 247
Likes: 6
From: At home
MSNBC has a new video of the landing at msnbc.com Video Player.
It's a combination from two cameras on the Manhattan side.
Nice smooth touchdown I'd say.
I timed the "landing" run to be about 16 seconds from first touchdown to when the plane had slowed to a point when passengers presumably could get up from their seats. So the deceleration was probably substantial but not schocking.
It's a combination from two cameras on the Manhattan side.
Nice smooth touchdown I'd say.
I timed the "landing" run to be about 16 seconds from first touchdown to when the plane had slowed to a point when passengers presumably could get up from their seats. So the deceleration was probably substantial but not schocking.
Joined: Mar 2005
Posts: 731
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From: England
dicksorchard
The engine weighs 5147 lbs (2335 kg) for one unit.
I guess a lot of bouyancy came from the air in the centre tank and unused space in the wings (if any). Not sure how much fuel they had on board.
The engine weighs 5147 lbs (2335 kg) for one unit.
I guess a lot of bouyancy came from the air in the centre tank and unused space in the wings (if any). Not sure how much fuel they had on board.
Joined: Aug 2008
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From: in a cigar lounge smoking a Partagas P2
Quote:
"Can someone confirm if this webcam is pointing towards the area of the recovery?
EarthCam - USS Intrepid Cam"
Should the camera be indeed located on the USS Intrepid, then it's improbable, as the ship is located on 38th Street and Liberty State Park is further downstream by the Statue of Liberty.
fcp2
"Can someone confirm if this webcam is pointing towards the area of the recovery?
EarthCam - USS Intrepid Cam"
Should the camera be indeed located on the USS Intrepid, then it's improbable, as the ship is located on 38th Street and Liberty State Park is further downstream by the Statue of Liberty.
fcp2
Joined: Jul 2007
Posts: 377
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From: My Stringy Brane
NTSB says right engine attached to US Airways jet
NEW YORK (AP) -- Federal investigators said Saturday that the right engine of US Airways Flight 1549 is still attached to the plane, contradicting their earlier statements that it broke off after the aircraft hit the water.
National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Knudson said the water was so murky earlier that authorities couldn't see the engine. "We're now looking for one engine, not two," Knudson said Saturday.
National Transportation Safety Board spokesman Peter Knudson said the water was so murky earlier that authorities couldn't see the engine. "We're now looking for one engine, not two," Knudson said Saturday.
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: UK
CRM or NOT
Ladies and Gents
Lets not knock the CRM in this case. When you consider the timescale involved I can only imagine the Captain said some thing along the lines of 'lets go for the river' Is the F/O going to start arguing the case with only seconds remaining in the air? I think not.
At the end of the day it turned out to be the right decision and everyone survived albeit most with wet feet!
Whoever 'landed' the A/C is also not really an issue (IMHO) so well done to both of the flight crew.
Also huge respect to the Captains of the ferry boats for reacting as quickly as thay did to attend the scene and recover all on board
Rgds
CL747
Lets not knock the CRM in this case. When you consider the timescale involved I can only imagine the Captain said some thing along the lines of 'lets go for the river' Is the F/O going to start arguing the case with only seconds remaining in the air? I think not.
At the end of the day it turned out to be the right decision and everyone survived albeit most with wet feet!
Whoever 'landed' the A/C is also not really an issue (IMHO) so well done to both of the flight crew.
Also huge respect to the Captains of the ferry boats for reacting as quickly as thay did to attend the scene and recover all on board
Rgds
CL747
Joined: Feb 2006
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From:
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: France
Re the earlier 'cell phone' photo and the still-attached engine :
You start wondering if the PF has flown seaplanes in his career as well...
He obviously put the "butt" of the 'plane in the water while holding the nose high for so long that one of the engines did not even come off, when they finally dug in.
CJ
You start wondering if the PF has flown seaplanes in his career as well...
He obviously put the "butt" of the 'plane in the water while holding the nose high for so long that one of the engines did not even come off, when they finally dug in.
CJ
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