Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Joined: Aug 2002
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From: Switzerland, Singapore
Return to base, very true. And the biggest contribution to the success was most probably not the structure but the fly-by-wire flight guidance, which allowed the captain to fly as slow and as low as possible to the water without risking a stall.
Dani
Dani
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 10
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From: Europe
Originally Posted by junior man
Very unlikely the APU was running as at the weights and temp involved still would not have been needed for TO performance.
RAT would have deployed if you lost both engines, giving you Electrics, Normal Law and flight controls. Poss hydraulic power still available for flaps with engines turning even if not producing power.
With two hydraulic systems lost (green and yellow, RAT powering the blue system) and in emergency elec configuration the aircraft certainly wasn't in normal law.
Joined: Aug 2003
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From: With all the other nuts
Not sure I understand that one Dani. How does FBW enable the aircraft to fly at a slower speed than a non-FBW aircraft? I don't fly Airbus so it's a genuine question.
Well done to all the crew - front and back
Well done to all the crew - front and back
Joined: Feb 2008
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From: UK
Dani
With probably the APU in use + the RAT, the ac would not have been in normal law. Having lost both AC main Busses, direct fly by wire laws disables all flight envelope protection, you fly too slow and she WILL stall, Hats off to BOTH pilots!!!!! excellent job!!!
With probably the APU in use + the RAT, the ac would not have been in normal law. Having lost both AC main Busses, direct fly by wire laws disables all flight envelope protection, you fly too slow and she WILL stall, Hats off to BOTH pilots!!!!! excellent job!!!
Joined: Jan 2005
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From: Europe
MyTh
How would APU improve takeoff performance?
How would APU improve takeoff performance?
Joined: Nov 2008
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From: Oz
It would seem reasonable that the cabin crew directed pax to stay on the wing rather than enter the water. If you look carefully at the pictures there are actually people in the slides as well as on the wing.
Perhaps at that point the pax felt safer on a more 'solid' surface such as the wing.
Usually arrows are painted on the wing surface to direct pax to the off-wing slide, as per other similar aircraft. I did have a photo somewhere but can't find it at the moment.
Edit: the arrows can clearly been seen in this link: Photos: Airbus A320-211 Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Perhaps at that point the pax felt safer on a more 'solid' surface such as the wing.
Usually arrows are painted on the wing surface to direct pax to the off-wing slide, as per other similar aircraft. I did have a photo somewhere but can't find it at the moment.
Edit: the arrows can clearly been seen in this link: Photos: Airbus A320-211 Aircraft Pictures | !!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Last edited by Boomerang_Butt; 17th January 2009 at 15:30. Reason: to add photo link
Joined: Feb 2004
Posts: 162
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From: Asia
Huge congratulations to the technical crew for allowing themselves to think out of the box.
Computerised flight deck is coming but is not ready for this kind of scenario. In fact computer by definition can never think outside of its box.
But when it comes to humans, how about the Air Mauritius Cargo flight crew who rejected the option to alight at sea and tried to continue in a burning aircraft to their distant airport, and so, all no more.
Lets hear it from,so called, third world pilots. Would you have dared to think outside the box like Captain Sullenberger and his very able first officer, or would you only follow the FMC ?
But we might ask what the FMC say, can make it to Teterboro or no ? That might come out later but I suspect the answer is "no info because no engines".It becomes matter for human judgement.
Lucky no-one say "We are doomed. It is the will of Allah."
Computerised flight deck is coming but is not ready for this kind of scenario. In fact computer by definition can never think outside of its box.
But when it comes to humans, how about the Air Mauritius Cargo flight crew who rejected the option to alight at sea and tried to continue in a burning aircraft to their distant airport, and so, all no more.
Lets hear it from,so called, third world pilots. Would you have dared to think outside the box like Captain Sullenberger and his very able first officer, or would you only follow the FMC ?
But we might ask what the FMC say, can make it to Teterboro or no ? That might come out later but I suspect the answer is "no info because no engines".It becomes matter for human judgement.
Lucky no-one say "We are doomed. It is the will of Allah."
Last edited by Guava Tree; 17th January 2009 at 11:51.
Joined: Mar 2005
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From: England
Charles Darwin Has the aircraft been lifted out of the Hudson? Anybody know if the engines are still there? I'd presume they'd snap off upon water contact.
Joined: Oct 2007
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From: Europe
Originally Posted by Charles Darwin
I'm not familiar with Airbus, but with many aircraft, such as B-737, one pack is operated from APU bleed during t/o and engine bleeds remain off. Does indeed improve takeoff performance somewhat.
Joined: Jul 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
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From: Found in Toronto
No where have I seen or read anything about who's leg it was, or who was actually flying the aircraft. There is even a possibility that it was the First officer who actually landed the aircraft.
Joined: Nov 2007
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From: Europe
First Officer ..who ???
Should be the Captains (Hero) decision to mention that it was teamwork which made this "miracle" happening.
I bet you can find on the Tapes of the CVR that someone on the Right hand side was "busy"running Checklists ...callouts(Altitude) and so on,to support the PF.
So please,pay tribute to the First Officer on this Flight.
I bet you can find on the Tapes of the CVR that someone on the Right hand side was "busy"running Checklists ...callouts(Altitude) and so on,to support the PF.
So please,pay tribute to the First Officer on this Flight.
Joined: Jul 2004
Aviation Qualifications: ATPL
Posts: 639
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From: Found in Toronto
The Coast Guard video offers a truly unique document of an aircraft evacuation "in earnest"........
.......But I'm struck by the fact that so many passengers went out on the wings, when both overwing slides/rafts were clearly deployed. Standing on the wings the risk of falling into the water is probably much higher than in the raft. Had there been larger waves, or darkness, the risk would have been even higher........
.......But I'm struck by the fact that so many passengers went out on the wings, when both overwing slides/rafts were clearly deployed. Standing on the wings the risk of falling into the water is probably much higher than in the raft. Had there been larger waves, or darkness, the risk would have been even higher........
At 3:12 in the video a passenger with no life jacket slips off the right wing, disappears below the water, and is then helped back up by another passenger. (also not wearing a life jacket)
It truly was a miracle that they didn't lose some one.
Joined: Feb 2004
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From: Asia
No matter who made the "landing", Captain or First Officer,
The actual act of "landing" was not the big thing.
The big thing was to think outside the box and agree together that the "landing" was to be made on the river.
The actual act of "landing" was not the big thing.
The big thing was to think outside the box and agree together that the "landing" was to be made on the river.
Joined: May 2006
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From: UK
I'm interested in what the NTSC will be able to do with the aircraft after she's been salvaged and taken to safe storage?
Might I assume the airframe has been filled with fresh rather than salty water which can be pumped out and then dried? And could it be possible (and necessary?) to power it up once again to determine the sequence of events prior to the ditching and subsequent flooding?
This incident must a rare one for airframe specialists: A fully intact aircraft with unprecedented water stress data available which Airbus and possibly Boeing would want to get their hands on.
Insights welcome!
Might I assume the airframe has been filled with fresh rather than salty water which can be pumped out and then dried? And could it be possible (and necessary?) to power it up once again to determine the sequence of events prior to the ditching and subsequent flooding?
This incident must a rare one for airframe specialists: A fully intact aircraft with unprecedented water stress data available which Airbus and possibly Boeing would want to get their hands on.
Insights welcome!
Joined: Oct 2007
Posts: 94
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From: Antipodes Islands
Super Powerful Currents
Based on the Washington Post report washingtonpost.com
The currents were exceptionally strong
Kitty Higgins, the NTSB member in charge of the on-scene investigation, said both engines are believed to have detached as the plane was pulled along by the river's strong currents.
Somewhat astounding that a water landing at 100 knots plus didn't rip the engines off, but the flow in the river did...
Kitty Higgins, the NTSB member in charge of the on-scene investigation, said both engines are believed to have detached as the plane was pulled along by the river's strong currents.
Joined: Apr 2002
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From: FUBAR
Lost in Saigon (& to tonker who originally posted it, I now see)
Thanks for the link, that must be one of the most inspirational videos I have seen in a long time. Human spirit will sometimes manage to triumph no matter the adversity.
As a footnote, perhaps the insurance company could donate the airframe to the museum housing the Concorde, that it drifts so gracefully by @8min45 on the video.
A lasting tribute to all involved in this magnificent landing & rescue
Thanks for the link, that must be one of the most inspirational videos I have seen in a long time. Human spirit will sometimes manage to triumph no matter the adversity.
As a footnote, perhaps the insurance company could donate the airframe to the museum housing the Concorde, that it drifts so gracefully by @8min45 on the video.
A lasting tribute to all involved in this magnificent landing & rescue
Last edited by captplaystation; 17th January 2009 at 12:45.
Joined: Apr 2002
Posts: 1,488
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From: Hong Kong
Should be the Captains (Hero) decision to mention that it was teamwork which made this "miracle" happening.