Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
Wiley,
Here is a link to cold water survival times, table at the bottom of the page.
Cold Water Survival
The main point to take away is that survival time is greater than the time to exhaustion or unconsciousness, which is where the life jacket comes in. It should keep the head above water, make it easier to locate the person in the water and also gives something to grab hold of.
Another interesting point from the site
Gotta love Google
Here is a link to cold water survival times, table at the bottom of the page.
Cold Water Survival
The main point to take away is that survival time is greater than the time to exhaustion or unconsciousness, which is where the life jacket comes in. It should keep the head above water, make it easier to locate the person in the water and also gives something to grab hold of.
Another interesting point from the site
Swimming or treading water will greatly increase heat loss and can shorten survival time by more than 50%.
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Historical Dimension of Crew's Behaviour
So much has been written, but after the News yesterday I would like to add the following.
The News showed a passenger in the hospital with a pilot's shirt (with three stripes, ergo from the FO) who said: He gave it to me and said 'Stay warm' or anything like that.
There was a famous British explorer Ernest Henry Shackleton, who with all his men survived a tremendous Antarctic expedition (1914-1917) with their ship Endurance being crushed by the ice. And there was a situation in an earlier expedition between him and his Captain Frank Wild suffering from hunger, as they all did. Let me paste a short extract found with Google 'Shackleton biscuit Wild'
"Early in his career, Shackleton became known as a leader who put his men first. This inspired unshakable confidence in his decisions, as well as tenacious loyalty (In an earlier expedition) Frank Wild, who had not begun the expedition as a great admirer of Shackleton, recorded in his diary an incident that changed his mind forever. Following an inadequate meal, Shackleton privately forced upon Wild one of his own biscuits from the four that he was rationed daily. "I do not suppose that anyone else in the world can thoroughly realize how much generosity and sympathy was shown by this," Wild wrote, underlining the words. "I DO by GOD I shall never forget it. Thousands of pounds would not have bought that one biscuit."
The US-Air crew continuous such a tradition. This is where CRM meets humanity at its basics.
I just can repeat and confirm all the compliments that have been made to the Crew ! Chapeau!
Regards, Bernd.
The News showed a passenger in the hospital with a pilot's shirt (with three stripes, ergo from the FO) who said: He gave it to me and said 'Stay warm' or anything like that.
There was a famous British explorer Ernest Henry Shackleton, who with all his men survived a tremendous Antarctic expedition (1914-1917) with their ship Endurance being crushed by the ice. And there was a situation in an earlier expedition between him and his Captain Frank Wild suffering from hunger, as they all did. Let me paste a short extract found with Google 'Shackleton biscuit Wild'
"Early in his career, Shackleton became known as a leader who put his men first. This inspired unshakable confidence in his decisions, as well as tenacious loyalty (In an earlier expedition) Frank Wild, who had not begun the expedition as a great admirer of Shackleton, recorded in his diary an incident that changed his mind forever. Following an inadequate meal, Shackleton privately forced upon Wild one of his own biscuits from the four that he was rationed daily. "I do not suppose that anyone else in the world can thoroughly realize how much generosity and sympathy was shown by this," Wild wrote, underlining the words. "I DO by GOD I shall never forget it. Thousands of pounds would not have bought that one biscuit."
The US-Air crew continuous such a tradition. This is where CRM meets humanity at its basics.
I just can repeat and confirm all the compliments that have been made to the Crew ! Chapeau!
Regards, Bernd.
Last edited by vorticity; 17th Jan 2009 at 08:05. Reason: typo correction
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Detatching a slide from an unuseable door and taking it to another is certainly an option on Boeing aircraft as far as I know. (I was certainly taught the procedure.) Airbus too, if I my memory serves me correctly, but it's been a few years since I flew one of the Dark Side's products, so I stand ready to be corrected.
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As Wiley says, this is trained on Boeings (knife installed on side of slide for cutting lanyard I seem to remember after pulling ditching release handle ?) so maintenance manula.tool kit may not be needed 
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Headlines
As a public relations officer I am often asked during training sessions why the media don't like good news stories and my reply is 'Planes landing safely don't make front page news' - I am pleased to say that I may now have to change this!
That video is amazing,everyone please have a look.
The immediate response from the ferries must surely have saved lives.
To keep station while boarding the passengers must have taken great skill.
The immediate response from the ferries must surely have saved lives.
To keep station while boarding the passengers must have taken great skill.
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Thats because it was supposed to deploy there - I'm talking about Wiley's idea that you remove a slide from one door and take it to another which is a non-starter.
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Amazing video.
Sorry, I think there's confusion between detatching the slide (using the detatchment point on the door sill after inflation) as opposed to taking the actual (uninflated) slide pack out of its bustle from inside the aircraft with the door closed. That discussion branched off as I had never heard of this being taught before...
With regard to pax in the water- had they been IN the water, or fo a long period of time, cabin crew are taught to get survivors into a huddle, using the heat escape lessening position (HELP) which involves bringing the extremeties up to contain body heat, also having everyone facing inwards with the legs up means that the group can support injured/unconscious pax or those without lifejackets...
Jet II- I was under the impression the rear doors weren't opened, I'm more familiar with the big sister of the 320- does the 320 indeed have off-wing slides? The one pictured seem to have orange markers as do the Boeing off-wing slides...
Sorry, I think there's confusion between detatching the slide (using the detatchment point on the door sill after inflation) as opposed to taking the actual (uninflated) slide pack out of its bustle from inside the aircraft with the door closed. That discussion branched off as I had never heard of this being taught before...
With regard to pax in the water- had they been IN the water, or fo a long period of time, cabin crew are taught to get survivors into a huddle, using the heat escape lessening position (HELP) which involves bringing the extremeties up to contain body heat, also having everyone facing inwards with the legs up means that the group can support injured/unconscious pax or those without lifejackets...
Jet II- I was under the impression the rear doors weren't opened, I'm more familiar with the big sister of the 320- does the 320 indeed have off-wing slides? The one pictured seem to have orange markers as do the Boeing off-wing slides...
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Age:
Ditching pb Closes the following (if open):
Ram Air inlet valve
Outflow valve
Pack flow control valves
Extract and inlet valves for avionics ventilation
We also use it for preparing the aircrsft for de-icing.
Ditching pb Closes the following (if open):
Ram Air inlet valve
Outflow valve
Pack flow control valves
Extract and inlet valves for avionics ventilation
We also use it for preparing the aircrsft for de-icing.
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Amazing video. The de-acceleration must have been quite something though. The aircraft appears to come to a virtual stop within a second or two.
Hats off to the sightseeing boat skippers too.
Hats off to the sightseeing boat skippers too.
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B737 DITCHING Checklist. Massive workload in a few minutes...
•Send Distress Signal
On Captain's command, First Officer will transmit MAYDAY, establish
position, course, speed, altitude, situation, intention, time and position of
intended touchdown, type of aircraft, and request “SAR” intercept using
prevailing air to ground frequency. Set transponder code 7700 and, if
practical, advise Captain of course to nearest ship or landfall.
•Advise Crew And Passengers
Alert crew and passengers to prepare for ditching. If possible, move
passengers away from the rear exits towards overwing and forward exits.
Assign life raft positions and order all loose equipment in aircraft secured.
Put on life vest, shoulder harness, and seat belts.
WARNING: Do not inflate life vest until after exiting the aircraft.
WARNING: Do not open aft entry or aft service door(s) as they may be
partially submerged.
•Burn Off Fuel As Required
Consider burning fuel prior to ditching if emergency permits. This will
provide greater buoyancy and a lower VREF. However, do not reduce the
fuel to a critical amount, since ditching with thrust available improves the
ability to properly control touchdown.
•The terrain awareness alerting and terrain display functions (if installed)
should be inhibited by selecting the TERR INHIBIT switch to INHIBIT.
•Accomplish IN RANGE and APPROACH checklists.
•Plan a flap 40 landing unless other configuration is required.
- - - - - BELOW 5,000 FEET - - - - -
Aural Warning C/B (P6-3, D-18) .......................................................... PULL
Prevents warning horn with gear retracted and landing flaps selected.
Ground Proximity Warn C/B……………………................................ PULL
Ground Proximity Terrain Inhibit Switch (If Installed) ...................OVRD
Pack Switches.................................................... ..........................................OFF
Engine Bleed Air Switches.................................................... .....................OFF
Permits depressurizing the aircraft with outflow valve closed .
Pressurization Mode Selector ............................................. MAN DC / MAN
Enables manual control of outflow valve.
Outflow Valve Switch...................................................... ..................... CLOSE
Closed to prevent water from entering the aircraft.
APU Switch...................................................... ............................................OFF
Closes the fuel valve and air inlet door.
Flight Deck Loose Gear ............................................................ .........SECURE
Flight Deck Door........................................................ ............ SECURE OPEN
Life Vests ............................................................ ...........................................ON
Don life vests, but do not inflate until after exit from aircraft.
Shoulder Harnesses & Seatbelts................................................... ..............ON
Put on shoulder harnesses and seatbelts and adjust for snug, comfortable fit.
Passenger Cabin Preparation ....................................................COMPLETE
Verify passenger cabin preparations for ditching are complete. All
available food, fluids, flashlights, first aid kits, and other emergency
equipment confirmed ready for evacuation.
When ditching without life rafts on board, ascertain that Flight Attendants
are prepared to use the evacuation slides as life raft substitutes.
Seat passengers with life vests on and seat belts fastened.
Radio ...........................................................T RANSMIT FINAL POSITION
Transmit all pertinent information pertaining to: final ditching position,
weather and sea conditions, rescue instructions, and information if ship or
other available rescue unit is standing by and any other necessary
information.
Emergency Exit Lights...................................................... ...........................ON
Insures lighting is available after electrical power is lost.
- - - - - BEFORE LANDING - - - - -
Landing Gear........................................................ ........................... UP & OFF
Check all landing gear lights extinguished and landing gear lever in OFF
position.
Flaps ............................................................ ...................____ GREEN LIGHT
Extend flaps to 40 or appropriate landing flap for an existing emergency or
non-normal conditions.
•Advise crew and passengers “BRACE FOR IMPACT” when within
30 seconds of touchdown.
•Maintain airspeed at bug (VREF + Wind Additive) and 200 - 300 fpm
descent rate.
•Plan to touch down on upwind side and parallel to waves or swells if
possible.
•To accomplish flare, rotate smoothly to touchdown attitude of 4 - 5,
maintaining airspeed and rate of descent with thrust. After touchdown,
reduce thrust to idle.
- - - - - ON THE WATER - - - - -
Start Levers...................................................... .................................. CUTOFF
Provides positive shutdown of engines.
Engine Fire Handles..................................................... ........................... PULL
Closes fuel shutoff valves to prevent discharge of fuel from ruptured fuel
lines.
Initiate Evacuation ............................................................ ....PA COMMAND
Post Landing Duties ............................................................ ...ACCOMPLISH
•Captain Proceed to forward cabin area. Evaluate escape potential.
Supervise and assist cabin crew in evacuation of aircraft. Board and
take command of any raft, if available.
•First Officer Assist Captain and cabin crew in evacuation of
aircraft. Board and take command of any raft, if available.
•Observer Occupy a seat in the cabin if available. If qualified, assist
flight attendant in customer evacuation.
The aircraft may remain afloat indefinitely if fuel load is minimal and no serious
damage was sustained during landing.
* * * *
•Send Distress Signal
On Captain's command, First Officer will transmit MAYDAY, establish
position, course, speed, altitude, situation, intention, time and position of
intended touchdown, type of aircraft, and request “SAR” intercept using
prevailing air to ground frequency. Set transponder code 7700 and, if
practical, advise Captain of course to nearest ship or landfall.
•Advise Crew And Passengers
Alert crew and passengers to prepare for ditching. If possible, move
passengers away from the rear exits towards overwing and forward exits.
Assign life raft positions and order all loose equipment in aircraft secured.
Put on life vest, shoulder harness, and seat belts.
WARNING: Do not inflate life vest until after exiting the aircraft.
WARNING: Do not open aft entry or aft service door(s) as they may be
partially submerged.
•Burn Off Fuel As Required
Consider burning fuel prior to ditching if emergency permits. This will
provide greater buoyancy and a lower VREF. However, do not reduce the
fuel to a critical amount, since ditching with thrust available improves the
ability to properly control touchdown.
•The terrain awareness alerting and terrain display functions (if installed)
should be inhibited by selecting the TERR INHIBIT switch to INHIBIT.
•Accomplish IN RANGE and APPROACH checklists.
•Plan a flap 40 landing unless other configuration is required.
- - - - - BELOW 5,000 FEET - - - - -
Aural Warning C/B (P6-3, D-18) .......................................................... PULL
Prevents warning horn with gear retracted and landing flaps selected.
Ground Proximity Warn C/B……………………................................ PULL
Ground Proximity Terrain Inhibit Switch (If Installed) ...................OVRD
Pack Switches.................................................... ..........................................OFF
Engine Bleed Air Switches.................................................... .....................OFF
Permits depressurizing the aircraft with outflow valve closed .
Pressurization Mode Selector ............................................. MAN DC / MAN
Enables manual control of outflow valve.
Outflow Valve Switch...................................................... ..................... CLOSE
Closed to prevent water from entering the aircraft.
APU Switch...................................................... ............................................OFF
Closes the fuel valve and air inlet door.
Flight Deck Loose Gear ............................................................ .........SECURE
Flight Deck Door........................................................ ............ SECURE OPEN
Life Vests ............................................................ ...........................................ON
Don life vests, but do not inflate until after exit from aircraft.
Shoulder Harnesses & Seatbelts................................................... ..............ON
Put on shoulder harnesses and seatbelts and adjust for snug, comfortable fit.
Passenger Cabin Preparation ....................................................COMPLETE
Verify passenger cabin preparations for ditching are complete. All
available food, fluids, flashlights, first aid kits, and other emergency
equipment confirmed ready for evacuation.
When ditching without life rafts on board, ascertain that Flight Attendants
are prepared to use the evacuation slides as life raft substitutes.
Seat passengers with life vests on and seat belts fastened.
Radio ...........................................................T RANSMIT FINAL POSITION
Transmit all pertinent information pertaining to: final ditching position,
weather and sea conditions, rescue instructions, and information if ship or
other available rescue unit is standing by and any other necessary
information.
Emergency Exit Lights...................................................... ...........................ON
Insures lighting is available after electrical power is lost.
- - - - - BEFORE LANDING - - - - -
Landing Gear........................................................ ........................... UP & OFF
Check all landing gear lights extinguished and landing gear lever in OFF
position.
Flaps ............................................................ ...................____ GREEN LIGHT
Extend flaps to 40 or appropriate landing flap for an existing emergency or
non-normal conditions.
•Advise crew and passengers “BRACE FOR IMPACT” when within
30 seconds of touchdown.
•Maintain airspeed at bug (VREF + Wind Additive) and 200 - 300 fpm
descent rate.
•Plan to touch down on upwind side and parallel to waves or swells if
possible.
•To accomplish flare, rotate smoothly to touchdown attitude of 4 - 5,
maintaining airspeed and rate of descent with thrust. After touchdown,
reduce thrust to idle.
- - - - - ON THE WATER - - - - -
Start Levers...................................................... .................................. CUTOFF
Provides positive shutdown of engines.
Engine Fire Handles..................................................... ........................... PULL
Closes fuel shutoff valves to prevent discharge of fuel from ruptured fuel
lines.
Initiate Evacuation ............................................................ ....PA COMMAND
Post Landing Duties ............................................................ ...ACCOMPLISH
•Captain Proceed to forward cabin area. Evaluate escape potential.
Supervise and assist cabin crew in evacuation of aircraft. Board and
take command of any raft, if available.
•First Officer Assist Captain and cabin crew in evacuation of
aircraft. Board and take command of any raft, if available.
•Observer Occupy a seat in the cabin if available. If qualified, assist
flight attendant in customer evacuation.
The aircraft may remain afloat indefinitely if fuel load is minimal and no serious
damage was sustained during landing.
* * * *
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It's great to read in the world media and on Prune, the accolades being afforded the crew re this ditching.
Accolades that are well warranted and that bring to the attention of the general public the skill and training of all airline pilots and cabin crew, the world over, that are too often ignored.
It's just a pity that when the shouting dies down and a group of pilots, somewhere in the world, takes industrial action over a safety issue that the general public, Prune and the media, will once again attempt to crucify airline pilots as a mercenary bunch of overpaid glorified bus drivers!
Accolades that are well warranted and that bring to the attention of the general public the skill and training of all airline pilots and cabin crew, the world over, that are too often ignored.
It's just a pity that when the shouting dies down and a group of pilots, somewhere in the world, takes industrial action over a safety issue that the general public, Prune and the media, will once again attempt to crucify airline pilots as a mercenary bunch of overpaid glorified bus drivers!
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Evacuation thoughts
The Coast Guard video offers a truly unique document of an aircraft evacuation "in earnest".
Let me first say the following armchair observations from the video should in no way bear on the crew and passengers, who suddenly found themselves in probably the scariest situation of their lives.
But I'm struck by the fact that so many passengers went out on the wings, when both overwing slides/rafts were clearly deployed. Standing on the wings the risk of falling into the water is probably much higher than in the raft. Had there been larger waves, or darkness, the risk would have been even higher.
The passenger safety sheet probably includes an instruction to turn aft towards the slide after exiting. But this did not seem to work for everyone in this event. I also seem to recall that the A320 wing has a nicely marked anti-slip service walkway painted on its top surface all the way out to the wing tip. This might have seemed the obvious choice to go for some passengers.
Should there therefore be a big red lighted blinking sign ten feet out on the wing which pops up in an evacuation, saying: "-> -> TURN AFT TO THE EVACUATION SLIDE -> ->" ?
Let's see if NTSB will address this point. I have a feeling next ditching may not happen in similar benign conditions, therefore this suggestion.
Let me first say the following armchair observations from the video should in no way bear on the crew and passengers, who suddenly found themselves in probably the scariest situation of their lives.
But I'm struck by the fact that so many passengers went out on the wings, when both overwing slides/rafts were clearly deployed. Standing on the wings the risk of falling into the water is probably much higher than in the raft. Had there been larger waves, or darkness, the risk would have been even higher.
The passenger safety sheet probably includes an instruction to turn aft towards the slide after exiting. But this did not seem to work for everyone in this event. I also seem to recall that the A320 wing has a nicely marked anti-slip service walkway painted on its top surface all the way out to the wing tip. This might have seemed the obvious choice to go for some passengers.
Should there therefore be a big red lighted blinking sign ten feet out on the wing which pops up in an evacuation, saying: "-> -> TURN AFT TO THE EVACUATION SLIDE -> ->" ?
Let's see if NTSB will address this point. I have a feeling next ditching may not happen in similar benign conditions, therefore this suggestion.
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Just a thought, has anyone thought of the unsung heros', those designers who built a structure that survived the water impact and allowed the overwing exits to open without jamming as well as the electrical engineers whose emergency lighting probably came on to give the 10 minutes of illumination as required.
Normally the first indication whether our design functioned as required is during a survivable incdent rather than a fatal one.
Although I was not involved in the design of the A320 I feel proud that my fellow collegues produced a successful design.
rtb
Normally the first indication whether our design functioned as required is during a survivable incdent rather than a fatal one.
Although I was not involved in the design of the A320 I feel proud that my fellow collegues produced a successful design.
rtb
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Hola espenjoh -
xxx
Great check-list...
I guess, when all engines flame-out at 3,000 AGL, you got time for all that.
Do you press the FREEZE button too...?
And when ck-list completed, continue the descent...?
xxx
I do not criticize any CK-LIST... but circumstances at times, do not permit.
As an example, in 1978, a National 727-200 ditched at sea in Pensacola, FL.
Pitch dark night, pilots screwed-up their approach (VOR-DME).
They were 1,000 ft TOO LOW, hit the water at some 500 FPM...
No preparation, as approach appeared normal - some 50 SOB - 3 fatalities.
xxx
Happy contrails
xxx
Great check-list...
I guess, when all engines flame-out at 3,000 AGL, you got time for all that.
Do you press the FREEZE button too...?
And when ck-list completed, continue the descent...?
xxx
I do not criticize any CK-LIST... but circumstances at times, do not permit.
As an example, in 1978, a National 727-200 ditched at sea in Pensacola, FL.
Pitch dark night, pilots screwed-up their approach (VOR-DME).
They were 1,000 ft TOO LOW, hit the water at some 500 FPM...
No preparation, as approach appeared normal - some 50 SOB - 3 fatalities.
xxx
Happy contrails