Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Or they were headed to Calgary, or departed there.
See Gimli Glider - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
There is also a well written book on the incident as well, although I forget the name and author.
more life vest observations
Study of still pictures reveals that almost all passengers on the wing did not have life vests.
However, of total of just 8 passengers pictured in (what looks like) one of the forward slides have four different types of life vests, including a solid foam type used in boats.
I wonder if this is because the forward doors are closer to the stash of ancillary emergency kit and so these were dished out by crew to the nearest passengers and the foam vest was thrown by a rescue boat (who have been reported as doing such).
One victim who jumped into the water and swam to a rescue boat said that his arms and legs were numb by the time he reached the boat.
Any one of a several "what ifs" would have had passenegrs in the water and many drowning due to not wearing life vests.
Mickjoebill
However, of total of just 8 passengers pictured in (what looks like) one of the forward slides have four different types of life vests, including a solid foam type used in boats.
I wonder if this is because the forward doors are closer to the stash of ancillary emergency kit and so these were dished out by crew to the nearest passengers and the foam vest was thrown by a rescue boat (who have been reported as doing such).
One victim who jumped into the water and swam to a rescue boat said that his arms and legs were numb by the time he reached the boat.
Any one of a several "what ifs" would have had passenegrs in the water and many drowning due to not wearing life vests.
Mickjoebill
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Stall Speed in Ground Effect
What would the stall speed (IAS, I imagine very close to sea level on a 20 degree F day) of the A320, as configured in the few pre-impact pictures of his "final approach", and assuming holding off in ground effect be?
Of course that wouldn't be the impact speed because of both water current and wind speeds, but it would give us an idea.
Also, has someone posted the ditching procedure for the 320, or did I miss it? I would be very interested to read it.
Of course that wouldn't be the impact speed because of both water current and wind speeds, but it would give us an idea.
Also, has someone posted the ditching procedure for the 320, or did I miss it? I would be very interested to read it.
Last edited by thcrozier; 17th Jan 2009 at 01:41.
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many drowning due to not wearing life vests
In those kind of water temperatures survival is measured in minutes, with or without a life-jacket. Thermal shock, resulting in water inhalation and possible cardiac arrest, is the biggest killer when the body is immersed in very cold water.
Nice job Sir; hats off to you and your crew.
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airfoilmod
I was careful to say the CoG of the engine & pylon assembly relative to the CoG of the aircraft when the engines are mounted. In other words, if you take the engines off an A320 does the CoG move backwards? By looking at the profile my guess is it does, in which case the aircraft would lie back in the water.
I was careful to say the CoG of the engine & pylon assembly relative to the CoG of the aircraft when the engines are mounted. In other words, if you take the engines off an A320 does the CoG move backwards? By looking at the profile my guess is it does, in which case the aircraft would lie back in the water.
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The aircraft was an EOW A 320 and had life vests. The people who are not wearing theirs, are the people who did not watch the flight attendant demo.
The rear slide rafts are useable in a ditching, you detach them and move them to the fwd exits. May be done before a planned ditching.
Very unlikely the APU was running as at the weights and temp involved still would not have been needed for TO performance.
RAT would have deployed if you lost both engines, giving you Electrics, Normal Law and flight controls. Poss hydraulic power still available for flaps with engines turning even if not producing power.
You ditch gear UP in an A 320 and everything else I have ever heard of with retractable gear. The gear was UP in the ditching. Flown both the 320 and the 737 and pretty similar worries to having to ditch either. Maybe plastic floats better though??
The rear slide rafts are useable in a ditching, you detach them and move them to the fwd exits. May be done before a planned ditching.
Very unlikely the APU was running as at the weights and temp involved still would not have been needed for TO performance.
RAT would have deployed if you lost both engines, giving you Electrics, Normal Law and flight controls. Poss hydraulic power still available for flaps with engines turning even if not producing power.
You ditch gear UP in an A 320 and everything else I have ever heard of with retractable gear. The gear was UP in the ditching. Flown both the 320 and the 737 and pretty similar worries to having to ditch either. Maybe plastic floats better though??
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Photo shortly after touchdown, From the NY1 Website
I did not see this image posted earlier, apologies if I overlooked
I did not see this image posted earlier, apologies if I overlooked
Drowning without a life-preserver would be the least of your problems!
In those kind of water temperatures survival is measured in minutes, with or without a life-jacket. Thermal shock, resulting in water inhalation and possible cardiac arrest, is the biggest killer when the body is immersed in very cold water.
In those kind of water temperatures survival is measured in minutes, with or without a life-jacket. Thermal shock, resulting in water inhalation and possible cardiac arrest, is the biggest killer when the body is immersed in very cold water.
So the life vest is the most of your worries as it keeps your head above water when your limbs give up! Cardiac arrest on entry is rare and lifejacket gives you many minutes more survival time as you are not dissipating your body heat by moving your extremities. Survival at sea 101!
The aircraft was an EOW A 320 and had life vests. The people who are not wearing theirs, are the people who did not watch the flight attendant demo.
It hasn't been confirmed that life vests were available on this aircraft.
Mickjoebill
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Yaw on landing
The prior photo in that series shows the position of the plane a few seconds later. It did apparently turn about 110 - 120 degrees to port on ditching. Utterly amazing that the airframe stayed intact.
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You are probably wrong. I've yet to hear any passenger account that mentions they were warned by the pilot that they were going to ditch or any account that cabin crew told them to don life vests.
It hasn't been confirmed that life vests were available on this aircraft.
It hasn't been confirmed that life vests were available on this aircraft.
You are probably wrong,
check that you are wrong.
Life vests installed and their proper use in the unlikely event of a water landing demonstrated by the flight attendants.
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I was also interested to note that slide looks awfully full with only 9 pob... or is it just he angle of the water???
With regard to passengers possibly 'not being told'... I can assure you the first command in a ditching (either prepared or unprepared) which is taught is something along the lines of: (Im not US Air but would guess it'd be similar)
Fit your lifejackets
They are (location)
High heels off
Said while opening useable doors and waiting for slide inflation, gives pax time to get vests on, soon as a raft is useable the crew member at that door will order evac and get things moving. Hence from reports that doors were opened fairly quickly (slides only take 3-5 secondsto deploy) that by the time the FAs ordered evac many pax well could have still been trying to get lifejackets on and decided they just wanted out and weren't waiting around!
I'd be interested to know if different terminology was used than 'Brace for impact'- some airlines use different phrases for land and water so FAs know as soon as possible that it's a water impact.
Knowing they were taking off over water, FAs could well have given the lifejacket command early, if so then good work on their part. I myself taking off over water think to myself 'If I were to get a brace command now, we'll likely be on water.... what are my ditch commands..." If you;re not on water, well it's easy to amend your commands once you see where you are
Good job by all, can anyone confirm the procedure mentioned earlier for detatching a slide raft? I was under the impression they can only be detached once inflated OUTSIDE the aircraft... or are these 'slide only' devices... interesting, as my airline uses 'slide-raft' type setups....
(I mean, given the way slides/rafts are stowed in a slide pack, wouldn't it be nearly impossible to remove a slide from a closed door or is there some mechanism (access hatch) to take the pack out... I would think this would be a bad idea as imagine it inflating in the cabin... or did you indeed mean detatching the slide/raft once inflated and moving it to the front of the aircraft???
With regard to passengers possibly 'not being told'... I can assure you the first command in a ditching (either prepared or unprepared) which is taught is something along the lines of: (Im not US Air but would guess it'd be similar)
Fit your lifejackets
They are (location)
High heels off
Said while opening useable doors and waiting for slide inflation, gives pax time to get vests on, soon as a raft is useable the crew member at that door will order evac and get things moving. Hence from reports that doors were opened fairly quickly (slides only take 3-5 secondsto deploy) that by the time the FAs ordered evac many pax well could have still been trying to get lifejackets on and decided they just wanted out and weren't waiting around!
I'd be interested to know if different terminology was used than 'Brace for impact'- some airlines use different phrases for land and water so FAs know as soon as possible that it's a water impact.
Knowing they were taking off over water, FAs could well have given the lifejacket command early, if so then good work on their part. I myself taking off over water think to myself 'If I were to get a brace command now, we'll likely be on water.... what are my ditch commands..." If you;re not on water, well it's easy to amend your commands once you see where you are
Good job by all, can anyone confirm the procedure mentioned earlier for detatching a slide raft? I was under the impression they can only be detached once inflated OUTSIDE the aircraft... or are these 'slide only' devices... interesting, as my airline uses 'slide-raft' type setups....
(I mean, given the way slides/rafts are stowed in a slide pack, wouldn't it be nearly impossible to remove a slide from a closed door or is there some mechanism (access hatch) to take the pack out... I would think this would be a bad idea as imagine it inflating in the cabin... or did you indeed mean detatching the slide/raft once inflated and moving it to the front of the aircraft???
Last edited by Boomerang_Butt; 17th Jan 2009 at 02:34. Reason: clarity