Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
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Question for Airbus experts
Would the APU have been running during departure or would they have to initiate start? Been a while since I played with one but remember about 30 seconds to get a small Airesearch on line.
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I have no idea of the speed and direction of the current at the time the plane ditched.
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Great job! I hope someone managed to capture this on video as it would be an exellent training aid. Touching wingtip and ground looping à la B757 off Kenya was NOT way to go. Obviously his technique, configuration and attitude at touchdown were flawless to keep that airplane in one piece.
With his CV he should be re-writing the SOP's for ditching.
With his CV he should be re-writing the SOP's for ditching.
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"strong outbound current quickly carried the plane ..."
Plane Crash Hudson River: Jet crashes into Hudson River -- newsday.com
... Intrepid Museum president Bill White said museum staff immediately ran up to the flight deck of the historic aircraft carrier to see the plane, which had come to rest in the river just north of the museum on 46th Street.
"They skillfully ditched the plane in the water so people could get out. Rafts were deployed," White said. He said the strong outbound current quickly carried the plane and the rescue vessels around it from the upper 40s down to streets in the 20s.
"We saw a rescue swimmer jump from a helicopter into the water," White said. "We could see almost a dozen people up on the left wing, which was pretty much above water when it went past the Intrepid."
...
... Before it was moored, the current had been carrying the plane downriver at almost 2 mph, the Coast Guard said. A fuel spill was "an imminent threat," said Petty Officer Barbara Patton. The plane can carry 7,885 gallons of fuel, but probably had less for the relatively short flight from New York to North Carolina....
... Intrepid Museum president Bill White said museum staff immediately ran up to the flight deck of the historic aircraft carrier to see the plane, which had come to rest in the river just north of the museum on 46th Street.
"They skillfully ditched the plane in the water so people could get out. Rafts were deployed," White said. He said the strong outbound current quickly carried the plane and the rescue vessels around it from the upper 40s down to streets in the 20s.
"We saw a rescue swimmer jump from a helicopter into the water," White said. "We could see almost a dozen people up on the left wing, which was pretty much above water when it went past the Intrepid."
...
... Before it was moored, the current had been carrying the plane downriver at almost 2 mph, the Coast Guard said. A fuel spill was "an imminent threat," said Petty Officer Barbara Patton. The plane can carry 7,885 gallons of fuel, but probably had less for the relatively short flight from New York to North Carolina....
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Press Conference in NY just ended, crew have been awardeded the "Key to New York" Other emergency services honoured as well. Some of the response times were amazing. First vessel alongside the aircraft in 4 minutes, first divers in the water 7 minutes after impact. Mayor also announced that both engines failed.
Pilots and crew will not meet the press until the NTSB have completed their interviews.
First class effort by everyone.
Pilots and crew will not meet the press until the NTSB have completed their interviews.
First class effort by everyone.
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Plane Down in Hudson River - NYC
I can recall that ALM ,who were based in Curacao,ditched a DC9 off St Maarten 1970 more than 50% survived. The aircraft sank far too deep for it to be recovered
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On another website it was noted that US Airways has now made water landings from three of the four runways at LGA. I actually remember the flight with the somewhat dubious identifier as 5050.
Has anyone linked the atc tapes yet? The tape for JFK departure for the same time has nothing relating to the landing on it.
Has anyone linked the atc tapes yet? The tape for JFK departure for the same time has nothing relating to the landing on it.
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Fox News correspondent talking on Sky News stated that one of the engines has come off the aircraft on ditching. Divers set to retrieve the black boxes as soon as possible.
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i would be surprised if only one engine had come off. The twisting forces would have been enormous.
for now i m assuming both came off at about the same time.
There were no reports of survivors of extreme twisting of the plane during ditching
for now i m assuming both came off at about the same time.
There were no reports of survivors of extreme twisting of the plane during ditching
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On another website it was noted that US Airways has now made water landings from three of the four runways at LGA. I actually remember the flight with the somewhat dubious identifier as 5050
An F28 taking off from RWY 13 became airborne, and crashed in the water... suspected ice contamination.
DCA92MA025
A Boeing 737 taking off on runway 31 attempted a high speed rejected takeoff and over ran the runway. A jumpseat rider in advertantly trimmed the rudder full left out with his foot on the pedestal.
DCA89MA074
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The man needs to retire and write a book! I'll buy it!
Avionics have come a long way since 1977, and training has too. Were I a commercial pilot, I would get some deadstick time. In my case, half my landings were at a field with 1600 feet beyond the displaced threshhold, in which every landing could be realistically deadstick.
Folks are talking about adding dead stick landings to training. For years the standard offer from sim instructors if the sim session ended early - "dual flameout landing anyone?"
Folks will complain about 'negative training', etc, etc but other interesting events to see are no flap takeoffs, s/e handflown CAT II or III landings, total loss of hydraulics, and dual engine failure landings.
Folks will complain about 'negative training', etc, etc but other interesting events to see are no flap takeoffs, s/e handflown CAT II or III landings, total loss of hydraulics, and dual engine failure landings.
I've sure practiced dead stick landings and ditchings in the sim in years past but lately, if it's not part of the AQP profile, it doesn't get done. In the real world, there is a vast array of potential scenarios, all of them thankfully very improbable.
On another website it was noted that US Airways has now made water landings from three of the four runways at LGA. I actually remember the flight with the somewhat dubious identifier as 5050.
Press Conference in NY just ended, crew have been awardeded the "Key to New York" Other emergency services honoured as well. Some of the response times were amazing.
Last edited by Airbubba; 16th Jan 2009 at 16:32.
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well it looks like an amazing bit of airmanship by the crew :-)
Could anyone comment on the condition of the airframe and whether it is likely to be salvaged? any of the high res pics I have seen indicate no damage above the water line except from the tugboats that pushed it to its current location.
-jd
Could anyone comment on the condition of the airframe and whether it is likely to be salvaged? any of the high res pics I have seen indicate no damage above the water line except from the tugboats that pushed it to its current location.
-jd
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Bear in mind that this elementary error comes from the New York Times, which bills itself as "The Paper of Record"
The New York Times slogan is "All The News Thas Fit to Print".
All news fit to print NY Times I Herman
I guess we all prefer accuracy in the meda
.
Tide at Battery on 15 Jan
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15 January 2009 - 16 January 2009
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15 January 2009 - 16 January 2009
40.7000° N, 74.0150° W
2009-01-15 05:14 EST -0.35 feet Low Tide
2009-01-15 07:17 EST Sunrise
2009-01-15 09:46 EST Moonset
2009-01-15 11:25 EST 4.82 feet High Tide
2009-01-15 16:53 EST Sunset
2009-01-15 17:46 EST -0.57 feet Low Tide
2009-01-15 22:35 EST Moonrise
2009-01-16 00:05 EST 4.72 feet High Tide
2009-01-16 06:09 EST 0.01 feet Low Tide
2009-01-16 07:17 EST Sunrise
2009-01-16 10:09 EST Moonset
2009-01-16 12:17 EST 4.43 feet High Tide
2009-01-16 16:54 EST Sunset
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Is gear-up or gear-down SOP for ditching?
Re:
"I heard an eyewitness observing from an office window (next to the river) say the landing gear was down, 'just like a normal landing' " but the photo from Navigator33 shows wheels-up (at least at that altitude).
Accordingly, some questions from this non-pilot:
1. Is wheels-up or wheels-down generally advised for ditching airliners?
2. If wheels-down is indicated, is that intended to help absorb impact energy and (incrementally) reduce forward inertia upon the aircraft's contact with water, via wheels/gear shear-off?
3. Nonetheless, could there conceivably be a negative effect from ditching wheels-down? That is, would the wheels/gear tend to "hook in" to the water, pulling the nose down and under water, increasing deceleration rate (and injuries) and risk of fuselage breakup? Or could wheels/gear shear-off cause troublesome (sic) damage if the separated pieces then impact the aircraft elsewhere?
4. Conversely, if wheels-up is indicated, could ditching in such a clean configuration increase the probability of a smoother landing, assuming proper AOA being maintained? (I presume that there are no interlocks that would preclude deploying flaps/slats without gear-down.)
5. Of course, either way, the deceleration vector could be twisted by lack of bilateral symmetry in engine shear off, possibly causing fuselage breakup.)
6. Also, swell and wave height, and cross-wind gusting (if the PIC could not land into the wind), also would be factors, either way.
"I heard an eyewitness observing from an office window (next to the river) say the landing gear was down, 'just like a normal landing' " but the photo from Navigator33 shows wheels-up (at least at that altitude).
Accordingly, some questions from this non-pilot:
1. Is wheels-up or wheels-down generally advised for ditching airliners?
2. If wheels-down is indicated, is that intended to help absorb impact energy and (incrementally) reduce forward inertia upon the aircraft's contact with water, via wheels/gear shear-off?
3. Nonetheless, could there conceivably be a negative effect from ditching wheels-down? That is, would the wheels/gear tend to "hook in" to the water, pulling the nose down and under water, increasing deceleration rate (and injuries) and risk of fuselage breakup? Or could wheels/gear shear-off cause troublesome (sic) damage if the separated pieces then impact the aircraft elsewhere?
4. Conversely, if wheels-up is indicated, could ditching in such a clean configuration increase the probability of a smoother landing, assuming proper AOA being maintained? (I presume that there are no interlocks that would preclude deploying flaps/slats without gear-down.)
5. Of course, either way, the deceleration vector could be twisted by lack of bilateral symmetry in engine shear off, possibly causing fuselage breakup.)
6. Also, swell and wave height, and cross-wind gusting (if the PIC could not land into the wind), also would be factors, either way.
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Gear UP or DN...?
Ditching definitely performed gear UP for 707-727-747-DC8s...
Would be surprised to be any different for A320 or other airplanes.
xxx
Happy contrails
Would be surprised to be any different for A320 or other airplanes.
xxx
Happy contrails