737 veered off landing runway at Arrecife
MMENCLLBAMAN
The main reason for the low pax load is the fact that this being the half term period, the prices have doubled or tripled as is the norm at times like this.
I paid £285 for a one way onEasyjet from LGW to ACE a couple of days ago.
It is really screwing up the big Villa rental programme down here.
The main reason for the low pax load is the fact that this being the half term period, the prices have doubled or tripled as is the norm at times like this.
I paid £285 for a one way onEasyjet from LGW to ACE a couple of days ago.
It is really screwing up the big Villa rental programme down here.
Whenever I have landed at Luton (Rw 26) in a 737 we have always hit around the 1500ft mark and always clear the runway at the 5500ft point where the last taxiway is. We are usually at taxi speed about 500ft before. Easyjet 90% full plane most of the time.
This gives a ground run of 3500ft with healthy (but I suspect not max) braking.
On the ACE runway which is almost 8000ft this must have been a landing at least half-way down or even more, in other words well past the TDZ.
This gives a ground run of 3500ft with healthy (but I suspect not max) braking.
On the ACE runway which is almost 8000ft this must have been a landing at least half-way down or even more, in other words well past the TDZ.
The main reason for the low pax load is the fact that this being the half term period, the prices have doubled or tripled as is the norm at times like this.
Fair comment.
The highest recorded seat costs ever are cutting pax numbers severely, the villa rental market is wailing loudly.
Makes you wonder what the best strategy is. Low loads of high paying pax or bigger loads of lower paying pax.
The knock on effect here is visible to all.
The highest recorded seat costs ever are cutting pax numbers severely, the villa rental market is wailing loudly.
Makes you wonder what the best strategy is. Low loads of high paying pax or bigger loads of lower paying pax.
The knock on effect here is visible to all.
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Passengers inteviewed speak of strong smell of burning rubber and smoke coming out of the tires. Totally unstabilized descent with frequent roll corrections. Landed fast and hard, about half way through the runaway. Heavy braking and reversing.
Airplane is flying again after a wheel (tire?) change (perhaps only to be used by the investigators or to be closely inspected for defects after the hard landing). They also changed the brakes.
Air Europa, pilots union, etc, do not comment beyond the usual: it was a very experienced crew and the airplane was in perfect shape. It will be investigated (short for: the pilots messed up). The union is bitching about work schedules (seems the crew had been on duty for some 10 hours, it was the last leg of the cycle).
Weather was fine at the time. Runaway was dry.
cuatro.com - Videos
The animation is not quite right, for a change. The final position had a bit of a turn to the left, but something like 35º, not 90º. For some reason the angle seems steeper than it really is in the pictures (probably because of telephoto). The downward slope angle also looks exaggerated on some photos.
Here they show it being pushed back:
Video: El exceso de velocidad, causa del aterrizaje de emergencia del avión de Air Europa en Lanzarote : Vídeos en ELPAÍS.com
The news piece in the video wrongly states that the wind made the approach from the north necessary at that time. Not so. It was recommended the approach from the south but the weather permitted either one. The pilot requested voluntarily the landing on 21 to ATC and was granted.
Airplane is flying again after a wheel (tire?) change (perhaps only to be used by the investigators or to be closely inspected for defects after the hard landing). They also changed the brakes.
Air Europa, pilots union, etc, do not comment beyond the usual: it was a very experienced crew and the airplane was in perfect shape. It will be investigated (short for: the pilots messed up). The union is bitching about work schedules (seems the crew had been on duty for some 10 hours, it was the last leg of the cycle).
Weather was fine at the time. Runaway was dry.
cuatro.com - Videos
The animation is not quite right, for a change. The final position had a bit of a turn to the left, but something like 35º, not 90º. For some reason the angle seems steeper than it really is in the pictures (probably because of telephoto). The downward slope angle also looks exaggerated on some photos.
Here they show it being pushed back:
Video: El exceso de velocidad, causa del aterrizaje de emergencia del avión de Air Europa en Lanzarote : Vídeos en ELPAÍS.com
The news piece in the video wrongly states that the wind made the approach from the north necessary at that time. Not so. It was recommended the approach from the south but the weather permitted either one. The pilot requested voluntarily the landing on 21 to ATC and was granted.
Last edited by justme69; 1st Nov 2008 at 18:56.
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Looking at that approach plate and the weather, the decision height of approx 1600 ft and decent weather, if the profile was not looking good he should have gone around, full stop.
They continued and with still 4 miles to go up, with all these 737 jocks around and available if I was captain I would be very worried about being invited to see the chief pilot for tea but no jaffa cakes
They continued and with still 4 miles to go up, with all these 737 jocks around and available if I was captain I would be very worried about being invited to see the chief pilot for tea but no jaffa cakes
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Don't wish to speculate on the reasons for the incident, but some items that some may be interested in.
The aircraft had operated to Glasgow instead of Edinburgh, due to AEA refusing to land on the shorter 12/30 runway, as 06/24 was closed for resurfacing. This was the last flight back to Edinburgh of the season, operated for MYT. (Originally flights were operated by FUA)
As there are no returning flights to Edinburgh, hence why there were only 74 peoplpe on the flight back to ACE.
The aircraft had operated to Glasgow instead of Edinburgh, due to AEA refusing to land on the shorter 12/30 runway, as 06/24 was closed for resurfacing. This was the last flight back to Edinburgh of the season, operated for MYT. (Originally flights were operated by FUA)
As there are no returning flights to Edinburgh, hence why there were only 74 peoplpe on the flight back to ACE.
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Go arounds in that approach are very common in ACE. No disgrace or further complications, just 10 more minutes wasted, 5 if you shoot for the 03 landing afterwards.
Funny how they didn't want to land in 1.7km in Edinburgh's short runaway and then had to do in 2.4km / 2 (touched down about half way).
It seems that ballpark NORMAL braking figures with both reversers for the type would be 1200-1600m (this doesn't mean, of course, that it can't do it in as little as 700m if necessary and the circunstances allow). Factor you can miss some 500m from the head, and you shouldn't really venture in anything much less than 2km, unless you are willing to brake a bit hard and able land on the spot on dry paviment.
Edimburgh is quite rainy this time of the year, which for a 737 could mean a minimun of 2km landing distance under most circunstances.
Funny how they didn't want to land in 1.7km in Edinburgh's short runaway and then had to do in 2.4km / 2 (touched down about half way).
It seems that ballpark NORMAL braking figures with both reversers for the type would be 1200-1600m (this doesn't mean, of course, that it can't do it in as little as 700m if necessary and the circunstances allow). Factor you can miss some 500m from the head, and you shouldn't really venture in anything much less than 2km, unless you are willing to brake a bit hard and able land on the spot on dry paviment.
Edimburgh is quite rainy this time of the year, which for a 737 could mean a minimun of 2km landing distance under most circunstances.
Last edited by justme69; 1st Nov 2008 at 16:57.
Right sunflyer.
I was trying to reinforce my high price seats point by checking this weeks flights but kept coming up blank.
Now I know why. Last one of the season etc etc.
Cheers El Grifo
I was trying to reinforce my high price seats point by checking this weeks flights but kept coming up blank.
Now I know why. Last one of the season etc etc.
Cheers El Grifo
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Quick Question
After looking at all the photos, the following quick question comes to mind.
On this photo:
Un avión se sale de la pista al aterrizar en Lanzarote · ELPAÍS.com
Why can't you see the opposing approach lights? (the ones on concrete plinths going out to sea)
I would have thought from the angle the photo was taken you would see the continuation of the runway centreline, therefore including the approach lights?
Just an observation.
PF
On this photo:
Un avión se sale de la pista al aterrizar en Lanzarote · ELPAÍS.com
Why can't you see the opposing approach lights? (the ones on concrete plinths going out to sea)
I would have thought from the angle the photo was taken you would see the continuation of the runway centreline, therefore including the approach lights?
Just an observation.
PF
Warning Toxic!
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Because it's a long telephoto shot and the distant sea is foreshortened and the intervening objects are hidden by the elevated runway end. So you would have thought wrong!
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Well, there is a shallow downward slope and quite more distance than apparent to the first approach lights planted into the ocean, past the narrow beach.
The angle in that picture looks distorted, probably from the telephoto lens.
These videos shows the landings.
YouTube - Avion aterrizando en Lanzarote
YouTube - Landing Lanzarote
YouTube - avion aterrizando en lanzarote
If you wanna see the whole deal, you need to get close to the runaway and have some extra elevation. I put my daughter over my shoulders and tip-toe a couple of times when she was a child so she could see the airplane coming in and landing above the end barriers.
The angle in that picture looks distorted, probably from the telephoto lens.
These videos shows the landings.
YouTube - Avion aterrizando en Lanzarote
YouTube - Landing Lanzarote
YouTube - avion aterrizando en lanzarote
If you wanna see the whole deal, you need to get close to the runaway and have some extra elevation. I put my daughter over my shoulders and tip-toe a couple of times when she was a child so she could see the airplane coming in and landing above the end barriers.
Last edited by justme69; 1st Nov 2008 at 19:14.
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Can media understand aviation ?
Once again, media reporting has been less than perfect. Don't forget the media guys are here to sell copies and advertisements. I illustrated that by looking, weeks ago, what media were saying about the Spanair accident when the update was published.
The media ranged from "unknown cause" to "wing failure" via "wing flap failure".
The media ranged from "unknown cause" to "wing failure" via "wing flap failure".
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ACE is an interesting airport, especially when the wind is gusting - situation normal... Seen many an aircraft float and porpoise along when landing from either direction. With a motorway an one end and Cala Honda, and the beach with lots of salt water at the other, its tight.
Last time I was in ACE I noted that some of the Scandinavian charter companies - whose a/c were probably the heaviest to depart, prefered 21 for departures when there was a crosswind, even with a slight (and light) tailwind component.
The final picture in those above of the approach to 21 does not convey how steeply the terrain slopes down towards the threshold.Any landing on 21 will invariably involve touching down deeper than usual unless you get very close to the terrain on the approach.This terrain is a major factor in departing 03 and is why many operators depart on 21.