BA038 (B777) Thread
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The flight deckers round here might not be too impressed if more escapes either because much of it doesn't reflect particularly well...
However, I was surprised to find your observations here on the BA38 thread.
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Perfection is not alive and well in NATS.
The point is that these replays are produced for training purposes so that lessons can be learnt from them. They are not meant to be put on public view where they can be misunderstood and misconstrued as would be bound to happen.
You only have to look at much at what is written on this board to know that that would be a good road to go down.
The point is that these replays are produced for training purposes so that lessons can be learnt from them. They are not meant to be put on public view where they can be misunderstood and misconstrued as would be bound to happen.
You only have to look at much at what is written on this board to know that that would be a good road to go down.
Controversial, moi?
What is there within the piece concerned that could be misconstrued? The controller sounded under enormous pressure but seemed to do all that was required clearly and efficiently.
The captain of the BA38 used the wrong call sign and transmitted his evacuation command to the tower instead of the cabin, demonstrating how shell shocked he was.
Apart from that a slightly chilling but interesting insight into a very public accident with little that could be misconstrued.
The captain of the BA38 used the wrong call sign and transmitted his evacuation command to the tower instead of the cabin, demonstrating how shell shocked he was.
Apart from that a slightly chilling but interesting insight into a very public accident with little that could be misconstrued.
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Just saw the video, and it SHOULD be made available if for no other reason to show how professional ATC was and hence to instill a touch of confidence into people. There is is too much negative stuff published that this kind of positive stuff needs to get out also.
The leaking of such an internal document was indeed unfortunate, but probably inevitable because of the considerable interest within the industry and indeed from the wider public. I personally found it fascinating and played it several times.
It's possible that the video may show certain emergency procedures that are best not revealed, or that being an extract from a longer video it may be giving a misleading impression of the whole event. But it is likely that if a sanitised version had already been published to show how well the situation was dealt with by ATC, the leak of this particular document would not have occurred.
It's possible that the video may show certain emergency procedures that are best not revealed, or that being an extract from a longer video it may be giving a misleading impression of the whole event. But it is likely that if a sanitised version had already been published to show how well the situation was dealt with by ATC, the leak of this particular document would not have occurred.
I would say that in this specific case the leak actually puts a very positive spin on the quality of the ATC / airport crew response. Not as excuse not to follow regulations but nice none the less.
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I would say that in this specific case the leak actually puts a very positive spin on the quality of the ATC / airport crew response.
it is likely that if a sanitised version had already been published to show how well the situation was dealt with by ATC, the leak of this particular document would not have occurred.
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TwoOneFour stated:
"Is the "public" somehow a different species? Seems like there's a weird assumption that people in aviation have a different kind of brain, which the rest of us don't possess. Good job we're only employed as neurosurgeons, structural engineers, nuclear scientists and stuff..."
I don't know which of those professions you are employed in but a lot of us on here are are professional pilots. I'll bet you a £ to a bag of the proverbial that you won't find too many of us with the arrogance to post on any forums that exist for neurosurgeons, structural engineers, nuclear scientists etc about the best way to use information from the many incidents or accidents in those industries.
Aviation has a proud history of learning from the inevitable mistakes and errors that occur and there are good reasons why the information derived from those events are treated in the way that they are. I can assure you that merely serving your voyeuristic interest would not be high amongst them.
"Is the "public" somehow a different species? Seems like there's a weird assumption that people in aviation have a different kind of brain, which the rest of us don't possess. Good job we're only employed as neurosurgeons, structural engineers, nuclear scientists and stuff..."
I don't know which of those professions you are employed in but a lot of us on here are are professional pilots. I'll bet you a £ to a bag of the proverbial that you won't find too many of us with the arrogance to post on any forums that exist for neurosurgeons, structural engineers, nuclear scientists etc about the best way to use information from the many incidents or accidents in those industries.
Aviation has a proud history of learning from the inevitable mistakes and errors that occur and there are good reasons why the information derived from those events are treated in the way that they are. I can assure you that merely serving your voyeuristic interest would not be high amongst them.
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Rainboe,
http://www.pprune.org/tech-log/38695...er#post5158892
ATC tapes are a free-for-all but flight deck recorders are a personal privacy issue?
Well that's as maybe, how dare people abroad not take note of the UK Wireless and Telegraphy Act 19XX (Yawn)! We do live in the internet age, though, and accessing this stuff from abroad where the UK Wireless and Telegraphy Act 19XX (Yawn) doesn't really have much clout. This is a global village now, and we are all villagers. Unless MI5, MI6, in fact MI7-25 are going to monitor what we download and send suits to beat me up, we might as well learn to accept government imposed censorship is becoming a tad difficile!
I have no intention of such things filming me. Another enormous expense for the airlines (anything for an aeroplane is mind-bogglingly expensive) which will have to be recouped from the passengers (who are already being caned to death for tax revenues by all sorts of rapidly increasing taxes).
I can think of few accidents where a camera image would have been of any use whatsoever. Accidents like the Turkish 737 into Amsterdam would have revealed nothing new to a camera. Pilots have a right to privacy in their workplace.
I can think of few accidents where a camera image would have been of any use whatsoever. Accidents like the Turkish 737 into Amsterdam would have revealed nothing new to a camera. Pilots have a right to privacy in their workplace.
ATC tapes are a free-for-all but flight deck recorders are a personal privacy issue?
Last edited by violator; 6th Dec 2009 at 21:35. Reason: typo
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Never was about privacy, that is a red herring. The airlines, as public carriage, are regulated by a public authority whose mission is the acquisition and maintenance of safe transport. The devices are strictly controlled, but ultimately are under the control of the authorities. Any pilot who is annoyed at 'intrusive devices' is in la la land. If it's embarrassing or unsafe, don't do it.
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Listening to the ATC tape, it illustrates how precious little time the crew really had between landing clearance and landing short. Less than 30 seconds (closer to 20 seconds if the 7 seconds between roll back of RH and LH engine are taken into account as well). Apparently everything was still working as advertised when confirming the landing clearance with a confident, routine voice.
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I totally don't understand why the recordings would be 'private'. It paints all involved in a professional manner who when put to the test handled themselves very well. Now it's on You Tube (search BA038) it certainly won't be going away anytime soon.
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I discovered (courtesy of this thread) over the weekend that this DVD clip had been leaked.
I have explained in a blog on my website how I came about being in possession of the clip, why it went on my website in the first place and was then removed and then the reason behind ‘Speedbird 95’ and the evacuation command. I’m not going to post it on here as there will be some who are not interested.
I am not allowed to give you the direct link to the website as it can be misconstrued as advertising, but if you want to have a look it won’t take you long to figure out if you put my first and surname together with a .com after!
I have explained in a blog on my website how I came about being in possession of the clip, why it went on my website in the first place and was then removed and then the reason behind ‘Speedbird 95’ and the evacuation command. I’m not going to post it on here as there will be some who are not interested.
I am not allowed to give you the direct link to the website as it can be misconstrued as advertising, but if you want to have a look it won’t take you long to figure out if you put my first and surname together with a .com after!
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Youtube
I see Youtube has started deleting the clip from the site quoting
though it is on there several times so it will continually need deleting.
This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by NATS Limited
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Mmmayday38,
I'm only an occasional visitor of these forums but was drawn back here by the recent appearance of this ATC clip on the web.
I've vaguely followed your story since the accident and was, like many, surprised at what you and your family had to suffer in the aftermath of this incredible event. Like someone posted elsewhere, there is an inexplicable difference in the cultures between here and the US when you look at how our scumbag press behaved towards you and how the US rightly supported that guy.
Anyway, I'm just a passenger, and watching that clip gave me an insight into what happened that day and was a reminder of what an incredible achievement it was by your crew to deliver everyone safely back to their families. Reading your posts here it again leaves a very sour taste in the mouth as to how you have been treated and what you vaguely hint at with BA.
You are a credit to your profession and your family should be immensely proud of you. I wish you the very best in whatever you end up doing for the rest of your life.
I'm only an occasional visitor of these forums but was drawn back here by the recent appearance of this ATC clip on the web.
I've vaguely followed your story since the accident and was, like many, surprised at what you and your family had to suffer in the aftermath of this incredible event. Like someone posted elsewhere, there is an inexplicable difference in the cultures between here and the US when you look at how our scumbag press behaved towards you and how the US rightly supported that guy.
Anyway, I'm just a passenger, and watching that clip gave me an insight into what happened that day and was a reminder of what an incredible achievement it was by your crew to deliver everyone safely back to their families. Reading your posts here it again leaves a very sour taste in the mouth as to how you have been treated and what you vaguely hint at with BA.
You are a credit to your profession and your family should be immensely proud of you. I wish you the very best in whatever you end up doing for the rest of your life.
Last edited by EGLD; 10th Dec 2009 at 12:15.
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ATC tapes are a free-for-all but flight deck recorders are a personal privacy issue?
You picked my quote about putting cameras on flight decks. I have seen the effect of cameras filming there- use...er...lesss! Total waste of time and money. You see very, very little. Yet they are a big invasion of privacy (as well as a handy place to hang my jacket). So why not put cameras on ATC controllers as well then if pilots are supposed to have them? Shots of controllers talking to Speedbird 287 whilst scratching their arses and blowing their noses and looking at it will go down well with the public!
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ahhhh rainboe! you are alive!! see you have kept your gob shut on the BMI / Aerlingus threads lately! whats the matter???? may loose your job to BMI boys??? market forces old boy dont you know !
sorry to bust in on this thread but I had to throw a bit of mud at the gobby git ;-)
sorry to bust in on this thread but I had to throw a bit of mud at the gobby git ;-)
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I think the previous post has proved why this site has gone downhill in recent years, misguided 17 year old schoolboys spouting cr@p about sums it up! Rather read Rainboe any day. 
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I personally have no problem with the publication of tapes etc, in the case of fatal accidents then discretion should be used giving due respect to deseased and relatives.
With regard to Rainboe, perhaps Brian Abraham you havent seen the posts he has made re-astraeus and aer lingus contract, he has certainly stirred things up!
With regard to Rainboe, perhaps Brian Abraham you havent seen the posts he has made re-astraeus and aer lingus contract, he has certainly stirred things up!