BWA Unanswered Questions
Thread Starter
Join Date: Jul 2000
Location: California
Posts: 95
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
BWA Unanswered Questions
The last topic was closed last night leaving some questions unanswered.
In response to The Guvnors last post - BWA Plc are in Receivership. The Receivers are Kroll Buchler Phillips of Grosvenor Sq London.
The only owned assets are a couple of BAC 1-11 500 aircraft, spare engines and rotable / consumable spares. All the other assets are leased to BAe Tombo Aviation and Babcock & Brown
There are 2 ATR-72 aircraft sub leased to Citiflier and I presume ATR Asset Maangement originally provided the finance and will take over the lease.
I understand World Aviation Support will continue as a separate viable business though I would reckon there may be some questions asked over transfer of assets between BWA and WAS.
Good luck to WAS and Astraeus - so long as some former BWA jobs are saved....
In response to The Guvnors last post - BWA Plc are in Receivership. The Receivers are Kroll Buchler Phillips of Grosvenor Sq London.
The only owned assets are a couple of BAC 1-11 500 aircraft, spare engines and rotable / consumable spares. All the other assets are leased to BAe Tombo Aviation and Babcock & Brown
There are 2 ATR-72 aircraft sub leased to Citiflier and I presume ATR Asset Maangement originally provided the finance and will take over the lease.
I understand World Aviation Support will continue as a separate viable business though I would reckon there may be some questions asked over transfer of assets between BWA and WAS.
Good luck to WAS and Astraeus - so long as some former BWA jobs are saved....
Guest
Posts: n/a
Evolante - thanks for that information.
Holt CJ - indeed so; and just as it was getting interesting, as well! I suspect that it might assist the Receivers if their attention was drawn to what has been uncovered.
From today's Scotsman:
Holt CJ - indeed so; and just as it was getting interesting, as well! I suspect that it might assist the Receivers if their attention was drawn to what has been uncovered.
From today's Scotsman:
BWA collapses with £1m debt
Jane Gillard Northern Business Reporter
AN AIRLINE which transports offshore workers from Aberdeen to Shetland will go into receivership just two weeks after five of its aircraft were grounded after a dispute over landing fees.
Southend-based British World Airways, which employs about 50 people in Aberdeen, had debts of nearly £1 million which were exacerbated by a downturn in the aviation sector following 11 September.
Management said yesterday the company had collapsed after the leases on two of their aircraft were cancelled on Thursday.
The airline, one of the longest surviving independent airlines in the UK, established in 1946 as Silver City Airways, operates 10 aircraft from London’s Stansted airport and Aberdeen Airport.
Now all of its aircraft are grounded and the 320 staff have been told to clear their desks.
British World Airways specialised in supplying back-up aircraft to other carries, including British Airways, Air France and easyJet.
The airline was also subcontracted by Bristow Helicopters to transport about 250 oil workers a day from Aberdeen to Scatsta on Shetland. Workers were then transferred offshore by helicopter.
Bristow awarded British World Airways the sub-contract at the end of 1999 and the airline had been operating the route for 20 months.
However, Bristow’s contingency plans swung into action yesterday and oil workers were taken to and from Shetland on two aircraft operated by Flightline, also based in Southend. No passengers were affected by the change of carrier on the route.
A spokesman for Bristow said Flightline was expected to continue to operate the Aberdeen to Scatsta route until January when a permanent arrangement would be made.
"At the moment we have a number of options and will assess these over the next few weeks," the spokesman said.
Yesterday, British World Airways managing director Chris Bakhurst said: "I and my colleagues have been trying to find a rescue package.
"But with the state of the aviation industry, this morning we felt it was impossible to continue to trade and in fact every one of our aircraft is grounded now and there will be no more flying and the staff will have to clean out their desks."
But Bakhurst said there was a ray of hope for the 50 Aberdeen-based employees.
"We are very hopeful that whoever takes over our flying for the oil consortium may be able to take on some of our staff."
The company said the collapse of two customers, both European airlines, left the airline with debts of close to £1 million.
The final straw came on Thursday when BAE Systems decided to terminate the lease of two aircraft and soon British World Airways other lessors followed suit. A receiver is expected to be appointed early next week.
Jane Gillard Northern Business Reporter
AN AIRLINE which transports offshore workers from Aberdeen to Shetland will go into receivership just two weeks after five of its aircraft were grounded after a dispute over landing fees.
Southend-based British World Airways, which employs about 50 people in Aberdeen, had debts of nearly £1 million which were exacerbated by a downturn in the aviation sector following 11 September.
Management said yesterday the company had collapsed after the leases on two of their aircraft were cancelled on Thursday.
The airline, one of the longest surviving independent airlines in the UK, established in 1946 as Silver City Airways, operates 10 aircraft from London’s Stansted airport and Aberdeen Airport.
Now all of its aircraft are grounded and the 320 staff have been told to clear their desks.
British World Airways specialised in supplying back-up aircraft to other carries, including British Airways, Air France and easyJet.
The airline was also subcontracted by Bristow Helicopters to transport about 250 oil workers a day from Aberdeen to Scatsta on Shetland. Workers were then transferred offshore by helicopter.
Bristow awarded British World Airways the sub-contract at the end of 1999 and the airline had been operating the route for 20 months.
However, Bristow’s contingency plans swung into action yesterday and oil workers were taken to and from Shetland on two aircraft operated by Flightline, also based in Southend. No passengers were affected by the change of carrier on the route.
A spokesman for Bristow said Flightline was expected to continue to operate the Aberdeen to Scatsta route until January when a permanent arrangement would be made.
"At the moment we have a number of options and will assess these over the next few weeks," the spokesman said.
Yesterday, British World Airways managing director Chris Bakhurst said: "I and my colleagues have been trying to find a rescue package.
"But with the state of the aviation industry, this morning we felt it was impossible to continue to trade and in fact every one of our aircraft is grounded now and there will be no more flying and the staff will have to clean out their desks."
But Bakhurst said there was a ray of hope for the 50 Aberdeen-based employees.
"We are very hopeful that whoever takes over our flying for the oil consortium may be able to take on some of our staff."
The company said the collapse of two customers, both European airlines, left the airline with debts of close to £1 million.
The final straw came on Thursday when BAE Systems decided to terminate the lease of two aircraft and soon British World Airways other lessors followed suit. A receiver is expected to be appointed early next week.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 4
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I have deleted my comments because there are those that misunderstood their meaning.
No libellous allegations were intended and if any were present then I unreservedly withdraw them and most sincerely apologise.
We are all sad by the death of BWA, and I would like to take this opportunty to wish all those affected by this tragedy the very best for the future
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Virtual Mountie ]
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Virtual Mountie ]
No libellous allegations were intended and if any were present then I unreservedly withdraw them and most sincerely apologise.
We are all sad by the death of BWA, and I would like to take this opportunty to wish all those affected by this tragedy the very best for the future
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Virtual Mountie ]
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: Virtual Mountie ]
Join Date: Sep 2000
Posts: 16
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It really does make you sit up and think can these "life wreckers" ever be trusted in any other role where peoples livelihoods are in their hands. They really are in it for themselves.
Their day will come. Oh yes, their day will come!
Their day will come. Oh yes, their day will come!
Wrt "quick start-ups" on the previous BWA thread, I believe the quickest was Euro-Direct Airlines back in '94 - took just three months; also backed by BAe and run by ex-BWA Directors!
If history is to repeat itself, the only losers were the rank and file, as both EDA directors went on to more lucrative ventures.
Best of luck to all at BWA.
If history is to repeat itself, the only losers were the rank and file, as both EDA directors went on to more lucrative ventures.
Best of luck to all at BWA.
Yes, I realise that, but I just wanted to make the point that the "planned-bankrupcy conspiracy theory" that has been suggested does not require a particularly long lead-time when related to a phoenix start-up.
Guest
Posts: n/a
Rocket Ron - don't forget the licencing/certification system has changed since then (to JAR-OPS) - that is a much more intensive and drawn out process.
Under the old system, you could just copy someone else's manuals and you're A for away - now you have aircraft specific documentation, QA controls by the tonne and all the fun things like JAR145 and TRTO certification to contend with!
Under the old system, you could just copy someone else's manuals and you're A for away - now you have aircraft specific documentation, QA controls by the tonne and all the fun things like JAR145 and TRTO certification to contend with!
Join Date: Aug 1999
Location: uk
Posts: 247
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As one of the aforementioned "junior leeches" I suppose I'm in a good position to tell you what I THINK went on, and then you can rubbish me and accuse me of whatever you wish.
BWA had invested in 737's with no clear idea of how it was going to control its cost structure and also suffered from a paralysis within operational management about how to proceeed.
The Company nearly sank until a rescue package was put together which involved recruiting people with more appropriate expertise and the courage to make bold decisions.
Enter the 757, which flew its socks off from the moment it entered service, and which was on the verge of spawning numerous other contracts had the airline been able to keep trading.
The business plan of becoming a TRTO on the 75 and 73 was sound up till Sept 11, but no costs were incurred which significantly affected the airline one way or another as far as I can tell.
The 800 grand Eurocontrol bill sank the ship, which was already floundering because of historic debt and nil business for the 737 fleet.
Oh yes, and if you're going to insult me,or my colleagues I'd prefer you had the balls to do it to my face.
BWA had invested in 737's with no clear idea of how it was going to control its cost structure and also suffered from a paralysis within operational management about how to proceeed.
The Company nearly sank until a rescue package was put together which involved recruiting people with more appropriate expertise and the courage to make bold decisions.
Enter the 757, which flew its socks off from the moment it entered service, and which was on the verge of spawning numerous other contracts had the airline been able to keep trading.
The business plan of becoming a TRTO on the 75 and 73 was sound up till Sept 11, but no costs were incurred which significantly affected the airline one way or another as far as I can tell.
The 800 grand Eurocontrol bill sank the ship, which was already floundering because of historic debt and nil business for the 737 fleet.
Oh yes, and if you're going to insult me,or my colleagues I'd prefer you had the balls to do it to my face.
Join Date: Jan 1999
Location: north of barlu
Posts: 6,207
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I,m very sad to see BWA go down and i feel for all of you who are out of work I,v had it happen to me when debonair failed and it was not nice then when the business was in a much better shape.
I had not expected BWA to be the first to crash , my money was on flightline for that but it just shows how wrong perseptions can be however it was good to see flightline was able to pick up the scotish oil contract so quickly and hopefuly this will keep them in business.
The last thing we need now is another airline failure .
I had not expected BWA to be the first to crash , my money was on flightline for that but it just shows how wrong perseptions can be however it was good to see flightline was able to pick up the scotish oil contract so quickly and hopefuly this will keep them in business.
The last thing we need now is another airline failure .
Guest
Posts: n/a
soddit - I believe that they operated ATR72s (which were then subleased to CityFlyer when they were replaced with the ATRs). I suspect that the 146s are a short term 'quick fix'.
ADC - actually, it will be 2 years at the end of February. It just feels a lot longer!
ADC - actually, it will be 2 years at the end of February. It just feels a lot longer!
Join Date: Apr 1999
Location: England
Posts: 86
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Virtual Mountie, first and foremost, I offer my condolences to you and all of your colleagues at BWA. It is indeed a sad day when any airline fails. From what has been said by a number of your colleagues, BWA had a very able, loyal, competent and determined team that did their very best to strengthen and keep the airline afloat. I personally know a number of these people and I can assure you that they are very capable individuals indeed, with a very successful track record behind them. This is the reason for my response to you.
I understand, and indeed sympathise, with your predicament right now. I can imagine a whole cocktail of emotions that you feel, ranging from shock, disbelief, despair, anger and frustration. Whilst these are natural emotions, anger makes folk want to hit out against someone else even when it is not justified. In this context, I believe that you do yourself no justice or credit whatsoever to publicly condemn and insult your former colleagues for what has happened. A lot of what you say is conjecture, supposition and worse still, potentially libellous. I cannot imagine that you need to compound the problems that you are currently facing. It is a well known adage in this business that ‘what goes around, comes around’ and it does not pay to alienate oneself from people that you could probably encounter again in your future career. Best way to react is as you have been taught to in the cockpit; sit on your hands, keep cool, assess the evidence, and then make a cold rational decision based upon the ‘facts’ in front of you. This advice is given sincerely and sympathetically and I hope you will not take it as patronising.
Sept 11 was the catalyst that ignited the ‘domino effect’ resulting in the world-wide misfortune of aviation. Most had deep-seated problems that were already there long before Sept 11, but had not been addressed. Take comfort from the fact that BWA managed to survive considerably longer than many have and that maybe part due to the dedication and ability of those you now choose to condemn. Also, take comfort from the fact that there are many ‘green shoots’ sprouting up right now in aviation and that this blow maybe be short-lived for you and your colleagues.
I understand, and indeed sympathise, with your predicament right now. I can imagine a whole cocktail of emotions that you feel, ranging from shock, disbelief, despair, anger and frustration. Whilst these are natural emotions, anger makes folk want to hit out against someone else even when it is not justified. In this context, I believe that you do yourself no justice or credit whatsoever to publicly condemn and insult your former colleagues for what has happened. A lot of what you say is conjecture, supposition and worse still, potentially libellous. I cannot imagine that you need to compound the problems that you are currently facing. It is a well known adage in this business that ‘what goes around, comes around’ and it does not pay to alienate oneself from people that you could probably encounter again in your future career. Best way to react is as you have been taught to in the cockpit; sit on your hands, keep cool, assess the evidence, and then make a cold rational decision based upon the ‘facts’ in front of you. This advice is given sincerely and sympathetically and I hope you will not take it as patronising.
Sept 11 was the catalyst that ignited the ‘domino effect’ resulting in the world-wide misfortune of aviation. Most had deep-seated problems that were already there long before Sept 11, but had not been addressed. Take comfort from the fact that BWA managed to survive considerably longer than many have and that maybe part due to the dedication and ability of those you now choose to condemn. Also, take comfort from the fact that there are many ‘green shoots’ sprouting up right now in aviation and that this blow maybe be short-lived for you and your colleagues.
Join Date: May 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 7
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
The point is we have been shafted and want to put it right, also if you give in then the same thing will keep happening again and again. We must uncover the truth but at the same time move on.
Lets stick together and make sure us good honest guys come out of this the better.
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: 1 2 GO ]
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: 1 2 GO ]
Lets stick together and make sure us good honest guys come out of this the better.
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: 1 2 GO ]
[ 16 December 2001: Message edited by: 1 2 GO ]