Pilot Letter about UAL MGMT (get ready for a long read...), UAL 895..7/26/08
We elected to abandon our approach in Hong Kong ... but in rapidly deteriorating visual conditions ... the controller cleared us for the approach,
leaving us to guide ourselves to the localizer
with heavy rain and lightning the airport and ramp were shut down. ... the ramp ended up being closed for several hours.
I am personally not motivated by money.
I have (legally) extended duty several times to get the job done, without pay. Five hours extra for a 30 min hop to my original destination would be sufficient, I think.
It seemed a no brainer to us because a reserve would be paid to sit around anyway whether they fly or not
Happy to sit at home on full pay, with no chance of a standby callout, and enjoy the time off by forcing the standby (who also have families) to fly, even though you're not sick or unable to operate? 
Without the actions and knowledge of First Officer **** the aircraft would not have been fueled.
they were going to bring pilots in from Hong Kong via ferry boat.
Sounds like a sufficient test to see if US citizens are murdered on Macau ferry boats then. Wonder if the incoming crew were complaining about not getting a chopper ride?
The hotel had only five rooms available which were all suites.
Didn't think of trying the hotel you used for the Cabin crew then? Save the company a few dollars?
I was forced to wake up early (after only five hours of sleep) and check my computer to see if an update was done because I had no idea what kind of rest requirements we needed
I could barely tell someone my age much less figure out a duty day and rest time.
I told him that I was uncomfortable riding on a ferry in any case, and very concerned that United Airlines was forcing me to ride on public transportation with no security measures onboard. I told him that there were other options including a helicopter.
Helicopter flight ( Heli Express Limited / Macau / Hong Kong ) $HK2200 per passenger, ferry "HK$142 in Economy class on weekdays for day service to HK$176 Economy class for night service. Tickets in Super class range from HK$240 to HK$275," - and you seriously thought that after refusing more than five hours pay, they were going to get the entire crew (or did you just mean yourself) an express heli ride?All this, and so convinced you did a good job that you wrote up a couple of pages on it!!
Last edited by Checkboard; 18th Aug 2008 at 17:26.
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There's been some pretty harsh words said within this particular thread, but thank God that many of the respondants aren't on the Jury of any Board of Enquirey.
After such a very long duty day/night it's been my experience to be treated in a similar manner. Initial contact with crewing always commences low-key, but then gets ramped-up over the process of time. It's perhaps easier and less stressful to continue with an extended duty to another airport rather than trying to direct/organise a nightstop for pax/crew and aircraft. However, we all know that we are tired and that any further 'incident/accident' will lead to our own heads being put onto the chopping block, and it's those fears that are historically proven to be correct. Once that you commence to try and do any bargaining with crewing... you've lost the game; especially so within modern air operations that are steered by finance. Know the rules; and then act accordingly. If you've ben on duty for 24 hours... take 24 hours rest; however, you can't sleep twice in 24 hours, so you end up being just as knackered as the day before; except it's cumulative.
In conclusion, it's always going to be dangerous ground... especially on PPrune; where all of the 'experts' will judge you from the comfort of an armchair.
TCF
After such a very long duty day/night it's been my experience to be treated in a similar manner. Initial contact with crewing always commences low-key, but then gets ramped-up over the process of time. It's perhaps easier and less stressful to continue with an extended duty to another airport rather than trying to direct/organise a nightstop for pax/crew and aircraft. However, we all know that we are tired and that any further 'incident/accident' will lead to our own heads being put onto the chopping block, and it's those fears that are historically proven to be correct. Once that you commence to try and do any bargaining with crewing... you've lost the game; especially so within modern air operations that are steered by finance. Know the rules; and then act accordingly. If you've ben on duty for 24 hours... take 24 hours rest; however, you can't sleep twice in 24 hours, so you end up being just as knackered as the day before; except it's cumulative.
In conclusion, it's always going to be dangerous ground... especially on PPrune; where all of the 'experts' will judge you from the comfort of an armchair.
TCF
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... especially on PPrune; where all of the 'experts' will judge you from the comfort of an armchair.
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In the old days you would have just called the CP and sorted it out.CP's were management,they sat on the board.And the CP knew you personally,you werent a number.A good CP would probably have said no to the chopper ride and said something along the lines of "Ill see what I can do" to his paid trip off.Quid pro quo.Sounds like this skipper was born in the wrong generation.
Checkboard's line by line dissection of his actions is going too far the other way.A happy medium is comfortable.Fatigue is a real issue in longhaul and crews need to be looked after just a little bit better than shorthaul guys.
Checkboard's line by line dissection of his actions is going too far the other way.A happy medium is comfortable.Fatigue is a real issue in longhaul and crews need to be looked after just a little bit better than shorthaul guys.
Fatigue is an issue in all operations. This guy told crewing he was willing to operate - he just refused because an extra five hours pay wasn't enough for him.
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Fatigue is an issue in all operations. This guy told crewing he was willing to operate - he just refused because an extra five hours pay wasn't enough for him.
The UAL Captain...a turkey of the highest order....IE: simply not fit for long-haul ops.
Why are we not surprised?
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And why am I, or indeed anyone else, not surprised to see 411A's self-righteous pronouncements scattered all over this thread? Frankly, anyone who'se got the time to make OVER FIVE THOUSAND posts to his board, the great majority of which condemn his fellow pilots as easily-replaced lackeys, just can't be in full time longhaul flying and/or lacks for a real life and some sanity.
I am begining to think the "ignore button" on this board may well have its uses!
I am begining to think the "ignore button" on this board may well have its uses!
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And why am I, or indeed anyone else, not surprised to see 411A's self-righteous pronouncements scattered all over this thread? Frankly, anyone who'se got the time to make OVER FIVE THOUSAND posts to his board, the great majority of which condemn his fellow pilots as easily-replaced lackeys, just can't be in full time longhaul flying and/or lacks for a real life and some sanity.
I am begining to think the "ignore button" on this board may well have its uses!
I am begining to think the "ignore button" on this board may well have its uses!
I gather Mr. 411 has come up from the ranks long ago and has observed a few things about unions, airlines and such. Now I'm not saying that we are anywhere near detente on unions, him and I.
