Qantas 744 Depressurisation
Mobil phones
Not terribly relevant, but if I were a pax. expecting to die at any minute, I wouldn't be too bothered about rules relating to not using mobile phones in flight ! Taking pictures might just be the very thing that helps solve the mystery of what happens, and of course there are also those unscrupulous individuals who immediately alert the Press in the hope of getting a pay off for their efforts. Personally I'd ban the things along with the excess fluids and other stuff that the TSA and their World Wide Clones steal from pax. these days.
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oxy bottle explosion
I wonder if the oxy bottle blew, due to contamination or some kind of bottle or HP fitting imperfection, or whether bottle went out due to a structural failure that happened to be beside it. I think perhaps a structural failure due to corrosion, and the bottle mounted there got taken out ? Also, wouldn't it be nice for the rest of the crew to be recognised, I'm sure it was a team effort. The dumass media never seem to understand anything about aviation "the pilot saved the plane as it fell out of the sky" for fuxake!
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Gleanings from Sydney's Sunday Morning Herald...
An oxygen cylinder is missing from the Qantas 747 jumbo that was forced to make an emergency landing after a mid-air explosion punched a hole in its fuselage, an Australian investigator said in Manila today.
"It is too early to say whether this was the cause of the explosion," Neville Blyth from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) told a media briefing in Manila this afternoon.
"But one of the cylinders which provides back up oxygen is missing."
Meanwhile, the Associated Press said Blyth told the conference investigators had found no sign a bomb caused the hole.
He said tests for bomb residue were negative and Philippine officials had bomb-sniffing dogs go through the hold, finding no indication of explosives.
Qantas ordered to inspect every oxygen bottle
Qantas has been ordered to urgently inspect every oxygen bottle aboard its fleet of 30 Boeing 747s after the mid-air explosion.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority expects the inspections to begin by tomorrow and be finished within a few days.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said Qantas would be asked to check each oxygen container and the brackets holding the containers.
"It will be a visual inspection and it is a precautionary step," Mr Gibson said.
"The inspection will take a couple of hours for each plane so it will take a few days to do them all."
CASA is investigating whether an exploding oxygen container was responsible for ripping a jagged hole in the fuselage of flight QF30 from London to Melbourne.
"It is too early to say whether this was the cause of the explosion," Neville Blyth from the Australian Transport Safety Bureau (ATSB) told a media briefing in Manila this afternoon.
"But one of the cylinders which provides back up oxygen is missing."
Meanwhile, the Associated Press said Blyth told the conference investigators had found no sign a bomb caused the hole.
He said tests for bomb residue were negative and Philippine officials had bomb-sniffing dogs go through the hold, finding no indication of explosives.
Qantas ordered to inspect every oxygen bottle
Qantas has been ordered to urgently inspect every oxygen bottle aboard its fleet of 30 Boeing 747s after the mid-air explosion.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority expects the inspections to begin by tomorrow and be finished within a few days.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said Qantas would be asked to check each oxygen container and the brackets holding the containers.
"It will be a visual inspection and it is a precautionary step," Mr Gibson said.
"The inspection will take a couple of hours for each plane so it will take a few days to do them all."
CASA is investigating whether an exploding oxygen container was responsible for ripping a jagged hole in the fuselage of flight QF30 from London to Melbourne.
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Just been reported on BBC World Service that the investigators are considering a possible explosion on this aircraft as having caused the damage. Apparently an oxygen bottle has gone missing.
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The O2 cylinders in question are definitely those of the pax system.
From the 744 systems manual:
"The passenger oxygen system is a continuous-flow system that automatically provides oxygen for passengers whenever the cabin pressure altitude reaches a nominal 13,875 feet or higher. During the first few seconds, the control unit produces a pressure surge that releases the oxygen mask stowage doors and permits the masks to drop within reach of the passengers"
Given that the pax O2 system had been 'compromised'.. it's probable that insufficient pressure was available to all mask stowage doors, preventing some from opening.
Similarly, insufficient O2 pressure in the distribution system may have resulted in a reduced amount/loss of O2 available at some locations.
This is my opinion only (as a pilot, not as a LAME).
From the 744 systems manual:
"The passenger oxygen system is a continuous-flow system that automatically provides oxygen for passengers whenever the cabin pressure altitude reaches a nominal 13,875 feet or higher. During the first few seconds, the control unit produces a pressure surge that releases the oxygen mask stowage doors and permits the masks to drop within reach of the passengers"
Given that the pax O2 system had been 'compromised'.. it's probable that insufficient pressure was available to all mask stowage doors, preventing some from opening.
Similarly, insufficient O2 pressure in the distribution system may have resulted in a reduced amount/loss of O2 available at some locations.
This is my opinion only (as a pilot, not as a LAME).
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oxygen bottle cause likelihood
If a high pressure oxygen leak started, a 100% oxygen atmosphere would start a fire with the slightest oil based contaminant or even heat from friction. A blow torch fire would result until the oxy ran out, not a bang. No sign of fire here, so I don't think that happened. An explosion of the bottle is very unlikely also, it is an aircraft quality component that would be regularly inspected/replaced, and I've never heard of a cylinder failing like that? I don't like the look of the way that rivet line has fully seperated from the stringer in the picture. Does anyone know if a cylinder is missing here, or is the cylinder shown in the picture the only one in this area?
The Reverend
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Peter mcgrath, the cylindrical object you refer to looks like an air supply duct to the ACMs. Definitely not an oxygen cylinder which are coloured green (aviation grade breathing oxygen).
BOAC you have misunderstood my post #417. I did not claim the explosion occured near the crew oxy bottles. I merely pointed out the intent of the Boeing AD which refered to the crew oxygen stowage brackets. The hole in the fuselage was well aft of the crew oxygen location.
BOAC you have misunderstood my post #417. I did not claim the explosion occured near the crew oxy bottles. I merely pointed out the intent of the Boeing AD which refered to the crew oxygen stowage brackets. The hole in the fuselage was well aft of the crew oxygen location.
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FYI: oxy bottles are green, fire bottles are silver. The white long bit of metal in the photo i would guess to be the foot rail we engineers stand on to change oxy and fire bottles. they are intergeral to the cargo bay and sit just under the edge of where a container would sit
Posts edited. Thanks for pointing it out.
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Darts being thrown
Lets stop saying the word explosion. There is no ignition, no charred remains, no evidence of heat.
At worst there has been a rupture of a green oxy bottle that may have caused a press bubble that cause a failure of the surrounding structure..
So how could this be possible? If the gas in the bottle expanded it would escape through the relief line.. the little green disc you boys and girls check each dept.
If its not that then could the bottle have been allowed to get to zero press introducing moisture to the bottle. It is then recharged and the cycle of corrosion begins from the inside out? All bottles have a hydrostatic test date to ensure this still cant happen.
If the airframe structure failed first it is logical the nearest thing to the hole would be missing being the bottle.
If it was the bottle how did it open up the can and release all the bags?
This is a case for the X Files.
The big white thing looks like a side shot of a floor beam to me, look at a wider angle shot for a reference to the cargo door lwr edge which is floor level...
Too many questions yet to be half right
At worst there has been a rupture of a green oxy bottle that may have caused a press bubble that cause a failure of the surrounding structure..
So how could this be possible? If the gas in the bottle expanded it would escape through the relief line.. the little green disc you boys and girls check each dept.
If its not that then could the bottle have been allowed to get to zero press introducing moisture to the bottle. It is then recharged and the cycle of corrosion begins from the inside out? All bottles have a hydrostatic test date to ensure this still cant happen.
If the airframe structure failed first it is logical the nearest thing to the hole would be missing being the bottle.
If it was the bottle how did it open up the can and release all the bags?
This is a case for the X Files.
The big white thing looks like a side shot of a floor beam to me, look at a wider angle shot for a reference to the cargo door lwr edge which is floor level...
Too many questions yet to be half right
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One for the press haters
From todays UK Sunday Bellylaugh
The item is headlined:
Inspection found rust on Qantas jet in February
This report is from Sydney by Barbie Dutter
The item is headlined:
Inspection found rust on Qantas jet in February
This report is from Sydney by Barbie Dutter
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The big white thing looks like a side shot of a floor beam to me, look at a wider angle shot for a reference to the cargo door lwr edge which is floor level...
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The descent procedure is usually a quick check over of the packs, manually selecting outflow valves to closed and then dialing in 10000 into the alt select and then hitting the FLCH. Usually Vmo for max performace so your descent speed is at the barber pole. Speed Brakes extended, gived you ALOT of terrain out the windows, usually stabalised at 4-5500 fpm. even higher sometimes
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Banana peel
For a few posts it was good to see what the posters' area of expertise was. So, let me state at the start that I have none relating to the subjects on discussion.
Anyhow, having followed this thread for last two days and read most (if not all) post which did not concern themselves with media context, I cannot recall comments on couple of aspect of the damage.
If we were to fold back the three of so main pieces of fuselage skin, where would the centre of the break be? The way I see it - right along the lap joint. Look at the angles the lower and upper tears on the right diverge away from each other. The top part with two stringer chunks reaches down close to lap joint. I'd say, that oxy tank must have hit bullseye. I'd rather side with recent posts - "dislodged and out the hole" tank more plausible than a rocketing one.
Back to the broken skin. On the lower part blown outward, it looks to have an inward folded edge, which also looks to be curved. Or, is this just an illusion on a 2D photo?
Just curious.
Anyhow, having followed this thread for last two days and read most (if not all) post which did not concern themselves with media context, I cannot recall comments on couple of aspect of the damage.
If we were to fold back the three of so main pieces of fuselage skin, where would the centre of the break be? The way I see it - right along the lap joint. Look at the angles the lower and upper tears on the right diverge away from each other. The top part with two stringer chunks reaches down close to lap joint. I'd say, that oxy tank must have hit bullseye. I'd rather side with recent posts - "dislodged and out the hole" tank more plausible than a rocketing one.
Back to the broken skin. On the lower part blown outward, it looks to have an inward folded edge, which also looks to be curved. Or, is this just an illusion on a 2D photo?
Just curious.
The 'bent outwards' piece of hull near the top of the picture has a suspiciously even and rounded edge on one side. Almost as if it got in the way of a cylinder going somewhere in a hurry!
Qantas jet probe focuses on missing oxygen cylinder | Herald Sun
I'm worried about David's sense of priorities.
Passengers praised the crew's handling of the incident, but some complained that not all the oxygen masks worked properly.
"The elastic was so old that it had deteriorated. I was trying to get my passport, and every time I got my passport the mask fell off and I started to pass out," architect David Saunders told Fairfax.
"The elastic was so old that it had deteriorated. I was trying to get my passport, and every time I got my passport the mask fell off and I started to pass out," architect David Saunders told Fairfax.
The Reverend
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ByteJockey;
1. The AD refers to the Crew Oxy brackets heat treatment procedure.
2. The Oxy cylinders lay horizontal in a U-shaped cradle with
two security brackets locking it down.
3. 4. 5. no longer follow.
1. The AD refers to the Crew Oxy brackets heat treatment procedure.
2. The Oxy cylinders lay horizontal in a U-shaped cradle with
two security brackets locking it down.
3. 4. 5. no longer follow.
Last edited by HotDog; 27th Jul 2008 at 12:41.