Qantas 744 Depressurisation
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my sources tell me that all of VH-OJK's Heavy Maintenance has been carry out on Australia's soil this aircraft has never been to an outside MRO.
This you can count on as being fact
This you can count on as being fact
Machaca
I'm not familiar with the terminology being used here. Are you suggestiing that what we see is a piece of outer skin or rather an interior bulkhead 
Sleeping Freight Dog -- a closer look shows no bottle under the earlier spotted (Broadreach & Leodis737) frame section that ended up inside and turned around:
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DEPARTMENT OF TRANSPORTATION
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Part 39
[Docket No. FAA-2008-0410; Directorate Identifier 2007-NM-362-AD;
Amendment 39-15485; AD 2006-12-10 R1]
RIN 2120-AA64
Airworthiness Directives; Boeing Model 747-400 Series Airplanes
Preamble Information
AGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Department of
Transportation (DOT).
ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.
SUMMARY: The FAA is revising an existing airworthiness directive (AD) that applies to certain Boeing Model 747-400 series airplanes. That AD currently requires inspecting the support bracket of the crew oxygen cylinder installation to determine the manufacturing date marked on the support, and performing corrective action if necessary. This new AD retains all the requirements of the existing AD and expands the applicability of the existing AD to include certain airplanes that are not on the U.S. Register. This AD results from a report indicating that certain oxygen cylinder supports may not have been properly heat- treated. We are issuing this AD to prevent failure of the oxygen cylinder support under the most critical flight load conditions, which could cause the oxygen cylinder to come loose and leak oxygen. Leakage of oxygen could result in oxygen being unavailable for the flightcrew or could result in a fire hazard in the vicinity of the leakage.
DATES: Effective May 7, 2008.
The Director of the Federal Register approved the incorporation by reference of a certain publication listed in the AD as of May 7, 2008.
On July 17, 2006 (71 FR 33604, June 12, 2006), the Director of the Federal Register approved the incorporation by reference of Boeing Special Attention Service Bulletin 747-35-2114, dated December 19, 2002.
Federal Aviation Administration
14 CFR Part 39
[Docket No. FAA-2008-0410; Directorate Identifier 2007-NM-362-AD;
Amendment 39-15485; AD 2006-12-10 R1]
RIN 2120-AA64
Airworthiness Directives; Boeing Model 747-400 Series Airplanes
Preamble InformationAGENCY: Federal Aviation Administration (FAA), Department of
Transportation (DOT).
ACTION: Final rule; request for comments.
SUMMARY: The FAA is revising an existing airworthiness directive (AD) that applies to certain Boeing Model 747-400 series airplanes. That AD currently requires inspecting the support bracket of the crew oxygen cylinder installation to determine the manufacturing date marked on the support, and performing corrective action if necessary. This new AD retains all the requirements of the existing AD and expands the applicability of the existing AD to include certain airplanes that are not on the U.S. Register. This AD results from a report indicating that certain oxygen cylinder supports may not have been properly heat- treated. We are issuing this AD to prevent failure of the oxygen cylinder support under the most critical flight load conditions, which could cause the oxygen cylinder to come loose and leak oxygen. Leakage of oxygen could result in oxygen being unavailable for the flightcrew or could result in a fire hazard in the vicinity of the leakage.
DATES: Effective May 7, 2008.
The Director of the Federal Register approved the incorporation by reference of a certain publication listed in the AD as of May 7, 2008.
On July 17, 2006 (71 FR 33604, June 12, 2006), the Director of the Federal Register approved the incorporation by reference of Boeing Special Attention Service Bulletin 747-35-2114, dated December 19, 2002.
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Some posters have alluded to other subsequent failures in this plane.
Does this relate to the cockpit avionics faiiling ?
Pilot relies on skill to land crippled jumbo - Travel - smh.com.au
QANTAS pilot John Bartels landed his stricken passenger jet manually after the auto-pilot and instrument lights were rendered useless by an onboard explosion (sic).
Does this relate to the cockpit avionics faiiling ?
Pilot relies on skill to land crippled jumbo - Travel - smh.com.au
QANTAS pilot John Bartels landed his stricken passenger jet manually after the auto-pilot and instrument lights were rendered useless by an onboard explosion (sic).
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Imeo,
the plane is made up of basically stringers and Frames, the stringers run the length of the aircraft, and are connect to the Frames, The frames are the major piece of superstructure that go are the circumference of the Aircraft.
It would appear at first look at these pictures that there is a peice of frame that looks like it has broken away and is sitting at the bottom af the hull breach.
the plane is made up of basically stringers and Frames, the stringers run the length of the aircraft, and are connect to the Frames, The frames are the major piece of superstructure that go are the circumference of the Aircraft.
It would appear at first look at these pictures that there is a peice of frame that looks like it has broken away and is sitting at the bottom af the hull breach.
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Lomapaseo
Frames are the "hoops" that run the circumference of the fuselage, and to which the longitudinal stringers are connected. The skin panels are then attached to them both.
Yes, it appears to me that object in question is a piece of frame, or a length of skin with a stringer attached that is bent 90º to appear on edge.
I'm not familiar with the terminology being used here. Are you suggestiing that what we see is a piece of outer skin or rather an interior bulkhead
Frames are the "hoops" that run the circumference of the fuselage, and to which the longitudinal stringers are connected. The skin panels are then attached to them both.
Yes, it appears to me that object in question is a piece of frame, or a length of skin with a stringer attached that is bent 90º to appear on edge.
Machaca
OK, I was using the word bulkhead for what you call a frame. But I'm still having trouble resolving from the incident picture what you show in the reference picture that you just posted. Could you circle or other wise identify on your reference picture what we think that we are looking at in the incident picture. My belief is this is critical to the chicken and the egg of what failed first
Frames are the "hoops" that run the circumference of the fuselage, and to which the longitudinal stringers are connected. The skin panels are then attached to them both.
Yes, it appears to me that object in question is a piece of frame, or a length of skin with a stringer attached that is bent 90º to appear on edge.
Yes, it appears to me that object in question is a piece of frame, or a length of skin with a stringer attached that is bent 90º to appear on edge.
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Yes, it appears to me that object in question is a piece of frame, or a length of skin with a stringer attached that is bent 90º to appear on edge.
(edited with frames in correct location)
Last edited by peter mcgrath; 27th Jul 2008 at 05:19.
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Hey Machaca,
The oxy cylinder we think we are seeing is lying flat horizontally actually on top of the "frame" section you guys are discussing. Go to the absolute lower left corner of the torn skin opening and you can just barely make it out (under Peter's added word "frame".) In the bottom aft corner you can see what appears to some of us as the bottom of the composite bottle (far different from the appearance of the bottom an older style metal bottle.)
See it?
Main Oxygen cylinders on 747-100's and 200's were white, when I flew it. A walk around bottle would be green and is not a part of this conversation.
The oxy cylinder we think we are seeing is lying flat horizontally actually on top of the "frame" section you guys are discussing. Go to the absolute lower left corner of the torn skin opening and you can just barely make it out (under Peter's added word "frame".) In the bottom aft corner you can see what appears to some of us as the bottom of the composite bottle (far different from the appearance of the bottom an older style metal bottle.)
See it?
Main Oxygen cylinders on 747-100's and 200's were white, when I flew it. A walk around bottle would be green and is not a part of this conversation.
The Reverend
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The oxygen cylinder assemblies each include a slow openeing shutoff valve, a pressure gauge, and a safety outlet device which bursts before pressure reaches a value that could damage the cylinder, tubing or components. The safety outlet device outlets are manifolded to a line which runs to an overboard discharging port in the airplane skin.
I find it difficult to reconcile the above facts with the bottle burst theory.
I find it difficult to reconcile the above facts with the bottle burst theory.
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Entries on an online aviation forum going back to February revealed that rust had been found during a refurbishment of the 17-year-old aircraft.
One of the posts spoke of "serious corrosion issues" that had delayed its launch date back into service.
"Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope OJK [the aircraft's identification] recovers from her plastic surgery," the forum writer added.
One of the posts spoke of "serious corrosion issues" that had delayed its launch date back into service.
"Let's keep our fingers crossed and hope OJK [the aircraft's identification] recovers from her plastic surgery," the forum writer added.
The Reverend
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The passenger oxygen bottles are restrained in cradle type racks, securely fastened in a horizontal position in the ceiling of the forward cargo compartment. Suggestions of cylinder damage from mishandled cargo or pallet loading is not likely.
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quote from news.com.au :
Qantas ordered to inspect oxygen bottles | The Daily Telegraph
QANTAS has been ordered to urgently inspect every oxygen bottle aboard its fleet of 30 Boeing 747s after a mid-air explosion forced a jumbo to make an emergency landing in the Philippines on Friday.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) expects the inspections to begin by tomorrow and be finished within a few days.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said Qantas would be asked to check each oxygen container and the brackets holding the containers.
"It will be a visual inspection and it is a precautionary step," Mr Gibson said.
"The inspection will take a couple of hours for each plane so it will take a few days to do them all."
Qantas ordered to inspect oxygen bottles | The Daily Telegraph
QANTAS has been ordered to urgently inspect every oxygen bottle aboard its fleet of 30 Boeing 747s after a mid-air explosion forced a jumbo to make an emergency landing in the Philippines on Friday.
The Civil Aviation Safety Authority (CASA) expects the inspections to begin by tomorrow and be finished within a few days.
CASA spokesman Peter Gibson said Qantas would be asked to check each oxygen container and the brackets holding the containers.
"It will be a visual inspection and it is a precautionary step," Mr Gibson said.
"The inspection will take a couple of hours for each plane so it will take a few days to do them all."
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Peter -- great image!
Pacplyer -- do you see a bottle end in the photo in post #393? I'm trying to see it, but I'm not making it out.
HotDog -- yes, the bottle supports which are the subject of an AD!
Like our beloved aircraft, even top quality bottles engineered, manufactured and serviced to high standards can fail.
Pacplyer -- do you see a bottle end in the photo in post #393? I'm trying to see it, but I'm not making it out.
HotDog -- yes, the bottle supports which are the subject of an AD!
Like our beloved aircraft, even top quality bottles engineered, manufactured and serviced to high standards can fail.
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Video footage
All this mobile phone footage - and I thought mobile phones were all supposed to be switched off in flight.
Maybe the "explosion" was triggered by a passengers mobile phone
Maybe the "explosion" was triggered by a passengers mobile phone
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The oxy cylinder we think we are seeing is lying flat horizontally actually on top of the "frame" section you guys are discussing. Go to the absolute lower left corner of the torn skin opening and you can just barely make it out (under Peter's added word "frame".)
How much force would be required to slice through 2 frames like that though - and the edges appear to be cleanly sliced through...
The Reverend
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HotDog -- yes, the bottle supports which are the subject of an AD!
SUMMARY: The FAA is revising an existing airworthiness directive (AD) that applies to certain Boeing Model 747-400 series airplanes. That AD currently requires inspecting the support bracket of the crew oxygen cylinder installation to determine the manufacturing date marked on the support, and performing corrective action if necessary. This new AD retains all the requirements of the existing AD and expands the applicability of the existing AD to include certain airplanes that are not on the U.S. Register. This AD results from a report indicating that certain oxygen cylinder supports may not have been properly heat- treated. We are issuing this AD to prevent failure of the oxygen cylinder support under the most critical flight load conditions, which could cause the oxygen cylinder to come loose and leak oxygen. Leakage of oxygen could result in oxygen being unavailable for the flightcrew or could result in a fire hazard in the vicinity of the leakage.
Last edited by HotDog; 27th Jul 2008 at 06:05.
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The bottles are a major maintenance item only. I don't remember any hatch or access to that part of the aeroplane.
a times online article indicated that the pilots had trouble with their oxygen supply...and that there was a secondary supply
Even the so-called Boeing spokesperson got things wrong. There are definitely not "dozens of bottles".
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What sort of corrosion protection is used on the inner surface of the pressure hull? The photo of the piece of metal which has been twisted outwards seems to be bare metal (which I'm positive can't be right, eg must be alodined or etch primer) where an overlay of brown material (paint?) has been eroded.