Qantas 744 Depressurisation
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Blame game?
Funny how on the first couple of pages on this thread the usual suspects started bagging Qantas management. "Cheap Asian maintenance and Qantas bean counters caused this incident, our professional engineers in Australia would never sign out such an aircraft." Oh look, it was actually maintained here in Australia. Deafening silence.
Have a look at the threads after the 744 electrical bus failure a few months ago. Same initial whingeing. "Must have been cheap Asian workers with their staple guns that nearly caused our plane to crash". Whoops, looky here, it was just checked out in Avalon. (Please, don't take my word for it, go and look at the threads yourself.)
Everyone is so eager to lay blame where it suits them it could be mistaken for an American litigators convention.
Congratulations to the flight crew, cabin crew, and passengers for staying calm and getting so many of our countrymen back down safely.
Have a look at the threads after the 744 electrical bus failure a few months ago. Same initial whingeing. "Must have been cheap Asian workers with their staple guns that nearly caused our plane to crash". Whoops, looky here, it was just checked out in Avalon. (Please, don't take my word for it, go and look at the threads yourself.)
Everyone is so eager to lay blame where it suits them it could be mistaken for an American litigators convention.
Congratulations to the flight crew, cabin crew, and passengers for staying calm and getting so many of our countrymen back down safely.
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Good enlargement peter mcgrath!
I gotta tell you,
It looks like the bottom of a steel pallet or an aluminum ULD container. STA = short for Station? Structural weight? Anybody know? Can't remember the structural "TARE" type loading container abbreviations now.
Not good, that's for sure......
The plot thickens..... This one's another cliff hangar.
I gotta tell you,
It looks like the bottom of a steel pallet or an aluminum ULD container. STA = short for Station? Structural weight? Anybody know? Can't remember the structural "TARE" type loading container abbreviations now.
Not good, that's for sure......
The plot thickens..... This one's another cliff hangar.
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metal folding in?
Thanks Peter McGrath for the blowup of the 'golf club' - now clearly a strap of some sort.
However, the blowup did show something else interesting. At the far right the metal panel edges are bent *in*, not out. The whole metal flap is obviously pushed out, but the actual edge has been rolled inwards with a semi-circular profile.
Peter, could you perhaps blow up that section and post?
However, the blowup did show something else interesting. At the far right the metal panel edges are bent *in*, not out. The whole metal flap is obviously pushed out, but the actual edge has been rolled inwards with a semi-circular profile.
Peter, could you perhaps blow up that section and post?
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In response to Leezyjet re: interior pic of door... if by 'cracked' you mean in the 'cracked position'... my guess is, this was done after landing.
If the door had indeed opened (even a bit) in flight, the crew may have been able to use a device on the 747 (restraint strap) which is designed to keep a door in the 'cracked' position should the need arise to vent smoke/fumes from the main deck... again this is purely guessing and may not have been possible AFTER a door is opened/has come open but I would hazard a guess most 747 crew would have had this thought cross their mind as a way of possibly securing a 'faulty' door - or one which they couldn't fully close???
If the door had indeed opened (even a bit) in flight, the crew may have been able to use a device on the 747 (restraint strap) which is designed to keep a door in the 'cracked' position should the need arise to vent smoke/fumes from the main deck... again this is purely guessing and may not have been possible AFTER a door is opened/has come open but I would hazard a guess most 747 crew would have had this thought cross their mind as a way of possibly securing a 'faulty' door - or one which they couldn't fully close???
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However, However, the blowup did show something else interesting. At the far right the metal panel edges are bent *in*, not out. The whole metal flap is obviously pushed out, but the actual edge has been rolled inwards with a semi-circular profile.
Peter, could you perhaps blow up that section and post?
Peter, could you perhaps blow up that section and post?
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Wouldn't a crack caused by corrosion normally follow a rivet line? If so, there are some jagged pieces of metal there that definitely aren't on a rivet line.
When more is generally known about some of the problems faced by the flight deck crew after the initial depressurisation, they are going to get an even bigger pat on the back. It wasn't straightforward and it was very well handled indeed.
When more is generally known about some of the problems faced by the flight deck crew after the initial depressurisation, they are going to get an even bigger pat on the back. It wasn't straightforward and it was very well handled indeed.
Try looking up Aloha 243 then (fatigue failure plus decompression),
Aloha, survived the emergency decent, but they weren't that high---
---if there were structural considerations--I'd decent at VTP/RA ---in order to militate [hopefully
]--the effects of the failure---realizing a slower ROD will ensue---but many Explosive decompressions result from structural failure such as Aloha---note---Some may say how may one know there was a failure?---well like the US Suprem Court Defines Obscene--'you know it when you see it'--I guess I just have to trust myself
PA
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Shooting Star
How about the plane might have hit something like a mini meteorite? Shooting stars are a reality that can be seen if you are lucky. Why couldn't a plane run into one of these?
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German online magazine SPIEGEL is quoting an "Expert", "Most probably one of the oxygen cylinders exploded, it doesn't look like corrosion." (My translation).
Loch im Qantas-Jumbo: "Ein solcher Fehler darf nicht passieren" - Reise - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
Loch im Qantas-Jumbo: "Ein solcher Fehler darf nicht passieren" - Reise - SPIEGEL ONLINE - Nachrichten
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bbc website tries to be more reasonable -engineers forum ??
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Engineers 'had fears over plane'
BBC NEWS | Asia-Pacific | Engineers 'had fears over plane'
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Just adding my two cents worth...
speaking from my profession, working for the department of Defense, in the weapons research department, I can say that I am missing one piece of obvious evidence to indicate one reason:I see no evidence of any shrapnel holes, charring, blackening, blast damage to the baggage and so on.
Even if a pressurised container of some sort ( such as oxygen bottles, aerosol cans etc.) were to fail, it must have left some blast damage and expelled some shrapnel.
AFAIK IMHO it points to either corrosion or puncture of the pressurised skin, to have caused this damage.
But, this just my opinion, based on a few pictures on the telly and on the web. Closer inspection of the damage IRL will show more details. Lets just for the local experts.
cheers.
PS: of course, excellent flying and performance of the crew, hats off!
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The BBC news web page had this gem from one of their knowledgeable writers this morning.
Now that's what I call real stupid uninformed journalism. 
The passengers described hearing a loud bang mid-flight, when the fuselage separated from the plane and caused a rapid decompression of the cabin.
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The London Times Today
"It is possible that there was some kind of explosive device in the suitcases. There is a hole where there shouldn't be"
...
Flight International Magazine should perhaps consider replacing its Safety Editor?
Whio.
...
Flight International Magazine should perhaps consider replacing its Safety Editor?
Whio.
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German online magazine SPIEGEL is quoting an "Expert", "Most probably one of the oxygen cylinders exploded, it doesn't look like corrosion."
Have a look at the threads after the 744 electrical bus failure a few months ago. Same initial whingeing. "Must have been cheap Asian workers with their staple guns that nearly caused our plane to crash". Whoops, looky here, it was just checked out in Avalon. (Please, don't take my word for it, go and look at the threads yourself.)
Major maintenance (in Sydney) used to be a breeding ground for top engineers... Apprentices and tradesmen had the opportunity to be trained as licenced engineers (c/o the company) and work up through the ranks. Now the same people are probably stuck in dead end/"production line" jobs in Avalon. Morale is probably at an all time low.
My informed guess: Non-pyrotechnic internal-origination pressure event that blew the cabin skin and then removed the fairing like a champagne cork.
Could be "normal" pressure and a corrosion-weakened skin - or an overpressure source (O2 tank/line, luggage item that popped). Nothing in the pictures yet rules out either, so this must await examination of detailed evidence.
I notice that the Beeb is at last starting to get the msg on "plunge" - a graphic, and an aviation expert's quote, explaining that the descent was standard emergency procedure, now grace their web site.
Could be "normal" pressure and a corrosion-weakened skin - or an overpressure source (O2 tank/line, luggage item that popped). Nothing in the pictures yet rules out either, so this must await examination of detailed evidence.
I notice that the Beeb is at last starting to get the msg on "plunge" - a graphic, and an aviation expert's quote, explaining that the descent was standard emergency procedure, now grace their web site.
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Excuse a Rotorheads bloke for posting.
First, congratulations to the crew for an excellent job.
I was intrigued that there is video from "a passenger's mobile phone"? As a member of the SLF community, I thought they should be switched off? Some passenger has survived explosive decompression but ignores the safety brief and decides to risk switching on their phone?! Or am I wrong about this, do Qantas have a "phones OK" policy?
Just wondering
First, congratulations to the crew for an excellent job.
I was intrigued that there is video from "a passenger's mobile phone"? As a member of the SLF community, I thought they should be switched off? Some passenger has survived explosive decompression but ignores the safety brief and decides to risk switching on their phone?! Or am I wrong about this, do Qantas have a "phones OK" policy?
Just wondering
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Hmm, all these hats being taken off to the crew for a wonderful job?
Decompression. PNF opens the QRH and begins droning through the SOP that they've rehearsed so often they could do it in their sleep. PF puts the aircraft into the regulation rapid descent, levels out at 10,000' and Bob's yer uncle, time to reprogramme the FMS for diversion to Manila and look up the frequencies. This aircraft was never in any danger of crashing and none of the control systems were affected. The hole isn't even that big, its the missing bit of fibreglass fairing that makes it look more dramatic than it is.
I know, I know, but its just a Blacksheep doing his customary controversial duty of pointing out an alternative perspective.
Now, time to find out the actual reason why the fuselage burst. As a couple of people have noted, the hole is directly below No. 2 door and the oversized galley just along the side wall there on a QF Longreach 747s. Meanwhile, a very knowledgeable Airframe Technical Services Engineer has pointed out certain evidence of a previous repair in the area concerned.
Decompression. PNF opens the QRH and begins droning through the SOP that they've rehearsed so often they could do it in their sleep. PF puts the aircraft into the regulation rapid descent, levels out at 10,000' and Bob's yer uncle, time to reprogramme the FMS for diversion to Manila and look up the frequencies. This aircraft was never in any danger of crashing and none of the control systems were affected. The hole isn't even that big, its the missing bit of fibreglass fairing that makes it look more dramatic than it is.
I know, I know, but its just a Blacksheep doing his customary controversial duty of pointing out an alternative perspective.
Now, time to find out the actual reason why the fuselage burst. As a couple of people have noted, the hole is directly below No. 2 door and the oversized galley just along the side wall there on a QF Longreach 747s. Meanwhile, a very knowledgeable Airframe Technical Services Engineer has pointed out certain evidence of a previous repair in the area concerned.