Qantas 744 Depressurisation

[Scotsheli]

I'd say based on the very limited evidence available thus far that Mr. Pattern is Full has it about right; some imperfection in that area, possibly long standing, looks to have caused a progressive (and thankfully relatively slowly propagating) pressurization leak, resulting in the failure of the skin and disappearance of the fairing - looks more like a progressive tear through originating from a small source area. Interesting to see the investigation result when it comes out.

Very well done to the crew; trained for it may be, but its always different when you're not 100% sure if there are more little surprises to follow!

[snowfalcon2]

I was intrigued that there is video from "a passenger's mobile phone"? As a member of the SLF community, I thought they should be switched off? Some passenger has survived explosive decompression but ignores the safety brief and decides to risk switching on their phone?! Or am I wrong about this, do Qantas have a "phones OK" policy?

Don't know about Qantas, but many phones have a "flight mode" where the radio is inactive but the camera and other applications can be safely used. Whether that is allowed also during start and landing seems to vary between airlines - some demand all electronic devices to be switched off in those flight phases.

[G-CPTN]

The residue of film-wrap appears visible on the grey 'bag'.

It will have been subject to a lot of airflow from the moment of the depressurisation until landing - that could have damaged the film, rather than something inside the bag which is what I feel you are suggesting.

Agreed - I was merely pointing out that there appeared to be film remaining and that indicated that the grey item had originally been wrapped (as suggested as being standard practice for 'loose' items on pallets) and, indeed, that significant 'windflow' would have shredded the film. No suggestion of anything explosive inside the grey 'bag'.

[Capt Kremin]

BlackSheep, as I posted before, this was not a "simple" emergency descent. This crew had many other problems to contend with which shall become known in due course.
Hats off to them.

[Dr Illitout]

The O2 cylinders on the 747-400 I worked on were mounted in the roof of the forward cargo bay, well forward of this area.
The cargo fire bottles were mounted in the side walls also well forward of this area and if my memory serves me right, on the opposite side. The 747 I worked on was not a Qantas a/c but I don't think they are that different.
This fairing is held on by loads of screws of varing lengths. It is possible to put an incorrect length one into the fairing and for the tail of the screw to come into contact with the pressure hull and damage it. Boeing have issued several safety alerts warning of this saying that this could cause a fatigue failure in this area. Maybe??????????????????

Rgds Dr I

[pinkaroo]

Anyone know if this aircraft was at LHR earlier in the week, say Monday? It would be the day the other arriving QF was delayed in BKK for a good few hours.

[Blacksheep]

Simple or complex Capt Kremin, over-dramatisation of airline events does not serve our industry well. As an engineer I prefer to take a more detached view and focus on the real issue, which in this particular incident is why was there a structural failure at that particular part of the fuselage on this particular flight and how shall we ensure that something similar doesn't happen again. That is what is really important here, rather than plunging aeroplanes, crying Cabin Crew and the presence or absence of superhuman heroics at the pointy end.

[nooluv]

Terror As 'holed' Jet Falls 20,000 Feet!

"TERROR AS 'HOLED' JET FALLS 20,OOO FEET!"
The headline from the Middlesbrough Evening Gazette...
Must be the best yet.
"Passengers vomited when oxygen masks had to be used".
Thats not a good idea is it?

[theoldbull]

From an "insider" with over 40 years experience on commercial aircraft and 35 working on B747s, please note;- In that area of the fuselage on B747-400s between the right hand cargo lining and the fuselage there are 13 oxygen bottles, the first 7 of which are mounted vertically the remaining 6 are mounted horizontally. It appears that it is possible that one of the horizontal bottles may have let go and with 1750 psi projected itself through the fuselage skin and dislodged the fibreglass wing to body fairing.
Once part of the fibreglass fairing was breached the airflow would make sort work of the entire fairing assy. The location certainly aligns with the oxy cylinders and the damage is consistant with an event as described.

[Mech-prentice]

My new favourite media quote:
"A gush of air hit the plane, ripping a hole in the undercarriage."

Channel Ten (possibly Nine, will check) news anchor.

[Cater]

Moblie Phones

Funny how all the pictures on the TV show people filming the flight with Moblie Phones Clearly they all had time to get there phones out switch them on and start taking pictures ????

[FlyGooseFly!]

I was travelling SLF in business class on a B.A. 747 way back in 1988 - when suddenly - SHOCK! HORROR! The aircraft dropped like the proverbial stone. All the oxygen masks deploying didn't bother me at all - but the dense white fog and virtually instant cold rush of air had me more than a little concerned as to whether this was a crew controlled matter or gremlins taking over but as I was still alive and the airframe intact I thought there was every prospect I'd live a bit longer. However; the aeroplane seemed to be a glider which was confirmed by several half hearted ignitions which happily for all concerned caught on at the third attempt. I later had a little chat with the 2nd officer - clear air turbulence causing complete flame out - just how low did we get I asked - low enough old chap, low enough !


There was no structural damage in this case and the incident was not reported in the press.

[Pinkman]

whoateallthepies - post 253 / Cater - post 265

It is possible to use a camera on a mobile phone in 'flight safe mode', the pax may not have broken the rules.... this mode just disables RF Tx/Rx so the phone can be left 'switched on'.

Pinkman

[sispanys ria]

Originally Posted by "FlyGooseFly!

I was travelling SLF in business class on a B.A. 747 way back in 1988 - when suddenly - SHOCK! HORROR! The aircraft dropped like the proverbial stone. All the oxygen masks deploying didn't bother me at all - but the dense white fog and virtually instant cold rush of air had me more than a little concerned as to whether this was a crew controlled matter or gremlins taking over but as I was still alive and the airframe intact - clear air turbulence causing complete flame out - just how low did we get I asked - low enough old chap, low enough !

Dense white fog and rush of air following a flame out ? Sounds like Hollywood movie... how come a lack of pressurization can lead to explosive decompression symptoms ? I experienced engine out and cabin dump at FL280 few years ago and we had quite a reasonable cabin climb rate.

[Rainboe]

I think it is time the Moderators took a bit more control. This thread has run rampart with 100 amateur crash investigators again trolling out all sorts of idiocy. It makes it quite unreadable. why are you leaving garbage like this?

How about the plane might have hit something like a mini meteorite? Shooting stars are a reality that can be seen if you are lucky. Why couldn't a plane run into one of these?

PLEASE can we have a bit of silence and just aviation professionals contribute? I actually waded through a lot of the dross here last night and I wish I hadn't- Spotters desperately trying to find if they saw the actual aeroplane at T4 the other day! People with an axe to grind against Qantas about outsourcing all trying to get their bit it. Leave out stupidity, leave out politics, this is an incident review ONLY. I really can't be bothered to wade through keyboard diarrhoea like this- it is making the whole thread unreadable. Professionals are keeping out because of it!

[spinnaker]

Nice work from the crew. I guess some snot nosed investigator come will come along and find something they did wrong in procedure, but in my book, to the crew.

[Torqueman]

I'm with you Old Bull.

Most likely an Oxy bottle letting go.

Looks about the right location.

Though to be certain I'd have to examine it closely which we can not.

So people let's not hang anyone just yet.

The unfortunate thing about all this is how the Qantas management now go into the, 'Damage Recovery/find someone to blame game'.

[Blacksheep]

The horizontal oxygen bottles are mounted at cargo bay ceiling level, above the fire containment linings and about three feet higher than that hole.

[Jerry B.]

Rainboe

Just Google "planes hit by space debris" and you will find out for yourself!!! I wonder who is the idiot here??? A true aviation "professional" would not discount this theory and would not slander the post of another professional!
I am happy to contribute any ideas in the absence of any official findings as are other's on this forum. Maybe, just maybe the investigators will find that something hit the plane, than again maybe it was corrosion, an oxygen bottle, shifting freight etc. etc..

[Phil1980's]

What annoys me is all these people saying it was NOTHING!....No it wasn't to people who were sat in the plane...just because you "know it all" no need to be smug and hate passengers for being worried!