BALPA and BA talks breakdown
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In the thirty or so years I have been flying airliners, the pilots who got up my nose the most were those with attitudes like heavy heavy: ex fast jet pilots who talk in clipped tones with barely concealed arrogance about their previous life, in spite of the fact they were often flying outdated equipment while being paid peanuts. They then carry their backstabbing officer like qualities over to the airlines where, in their desire to compensate for failing to achieve in the service, they often crawl their way into management positions before being found out and someone else has to clear up the mess!
And the BA pilots, many of whom have over the years managed to conceal their below average flying skills in a large balpa driven system, while at the same time trying to prevent anyone else from queering their pitch, are only too happy to take jobs with these lesser airlines when they retire at 55.
These are the people who have helped to reduce the terms and conditions of all airline pilots.
And the BA pilots, many of whom have over the years managed to conceal their below average flying skills in a large balpa driven system, while at the same time trying to prevent anyone else from queering their pitch, are only too happy to take jobs with these lesser airlines when they retire at 55.
These are the people who have helped to reduce the terms and conditions of all airline pilots.
Nothing.
Very well said, SLH, spot on.
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Absolute b*llsh*t. That is not the characterisation of BA pilots I have seen after twenty years with BA, and I think the starting point of the posters making these allegations speaks volumes for their authenticity or otherwise.
BA pilots have a legitimate dispute over schedule K with their employer. No amount of muddying the waters with either 411a's twisted hatred of his own erstwhile profession or the disaffected victims of BA's brutal management treatment of companies like Dan Air, for which neither I nor other line pilots were responsible, will obscure the legitimate nature and origin of BALPA's dispute with BA.
I cant help help but wonder what 411a' motives really are in his obsessive doing-down of his professional colleagues.
BA pilots have a legitimate dispute over schedule K with their employer. No amount of muddying the waters with either 411a's twisted hatred of his own erstwhile profession or the disaffected victims of BA's brutal management treatment of companies like Dan Air, for which neither I nor other line pilots were responsible, will obscure the legitimate nature and origin of BALPA's dispute with BA.
I cant help help but wonder what 411a' motives really are in his obsessive doing-down of his professional colleagues.
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think about it
folks one point to think about:
could you imagine or think about the colleagues, that are working already for os or will be hired by os:
We do not need or want anybody from BALPA or BA - could you just be so kind and leave us alone.
BA Plane BA Pilots . pretty simple and pretty stupid also. This a complete new company with a complete new business modell, not affecting the present employment contracts or business of BA AT ALL. So please: could you just please let us alone and make this thing become a success without BALPA or BA pilots (who made here really quite uncooperatively comments). This has NOTHING to do with your terms and conditions. You will still earn lots of money-just leave us alone please. nobody want`s you really here!!!!
could you imagine or think about the colleagues, that are working already for os or will be hired by os:
We do not need or want anybody from BALPA or BA - could you just be so kind and leave us alone.
BA Plane BA Pilots . pretty simple and pretty stupid also. This a complete new company with a complete new business modell, not affecting the present employment contracts or business of BA AT ALL. So please: could you just please let us alone and make this thing become a success without BALPA or BA pilots (who made here really quite uncooperatively comments). This has NOTHING to do with your terms and conditions. You will still earn lots of money-just leave us alone please. nobody want`s you really here!!!!
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Don't wonder so much, ShortFinalFred, I have mentioned it all before...
There is no motive or agenda from my comments, rather just pointing out what is obvious to those of us who have been in the airline business a very long time....pilots simply aren't the Gods of yesteryear, they are another commodity in the airline world, one that is continually stretched to the limit, cost-wise, and because of these rising costs, present airlines must adapt...or fail.
Many BA pilots appear to be living in the past, and for that they will come to find the school of hard knocks, sooner or later.
There is no motive or agenda from my comments, rather just pointing out what is obvious to those of us who have been in the airline business a very long time....pilots simply aren't the Gods of yesteryear, they are another commodity in the airline world, one that is continually stretched to the limit, cost-wise, and because of these rising costs, present airlines must adapt...or fail.
Many BA pilots appear to be living in the past, and for that they will come to find the school of hard knocks, sooner or later.
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"scab" is an emotive word that has no place here i feel.
BA pilots unfortunately have their hands tied regarding any action they can take due to the pending court case. However i think it is unreasonable for BA pilots to expect others to take action on their behalf (secondary action) by refusing to join OS. This is a very difficult situation which requires adult discussion, not threats and jibes between the groups.
BA pilots unfortunately have their hands tied regarding any action they can take due to the pending court case. However i think it is unreasonable for BA pilots to expect others to take action on their behalf (secondary action) by refusing to join OS. This is a very difficult situation which requires adult discussion, not threats and jibes between the groups.
I won't use the 4 letter word but I will point out to "757coolpilot" the following: Given your comments about wanting to be left alone if you have any integrity at all I hope you never consider ever bidding out of OS and onto mainline once 
seniority lists are merged.
Oh yes, and my hard work over the last 20 years, and that of all my colleagues, both in the air and on the ground, has helped provide the resources BA is using to set up OS...so yes, I do feel entitled to an opinion.
seniority lists are merged.Oh yes, and my hard work over the last 20 years, and that of all my colleagues, both in the air and on the ground, has helped provide the resources BA is using to set up OS...so yes, I do feel entitled to an opinion.
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Union Tactics
I can see that Balpa through the BACC have not learned the lessons from history provided by the experiences of the NUM, SOGAT, SOGAT 82, the BLTUC, the AEU and the TGWU who now understand the ways of commerce.
The word Scab is surely not dignified by it's use by BA pilots who seem to be using this title to underline their willingness to join their blue collar brothers in the manual trades.
What did we end up with in the 1970s? The 3 day week, power cuts and the austin allegro.
BA should try and regain its position as a world leader and not sink back to the bad old days.
The word Scab is surely not dignified by it's use by BA pilots who seem to be using this title to underline their willingness to join their blue collar brothers in the manual trades.
What did we end up with in the 1970s? The 3 day week, power cuts and the austin allegro.
BA should try and regain its position as a world leader and not sink back to the bad old days.
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their willingness to join their blue collar brothers in the manual trades.
----------------------------------------
union labor is union labor, period.
don't be fooled, by that white collar and tie, into thinking you're part of middle management. you're not. you're labor.
Act like and "association", and you'll get flattened like a pancake.
KC135777
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union labor is union labor, period.
don't be fooled, by that white collar and tie, into thinking you're part of middle management. you're not. you're labor.
Act like and "association", and you'll get flattened like a pancake.
KC135777
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757coolplane,
You clearly don't understand how business works, never mind how British Airways works.
You are either a management trying to stir-up trouble, or a very naive individual.
Having spoken to ex-colleagues in various departments, I can happily tell you that the airline is in all manner of trouble.
OS and the BALPA situation are just the tip of a very large iceberg.
Good luck BALPA, the rest of the airline is depending on you.
You clearly don't understand how business works, never mind how British Airways works.
You are either a management trying to stir-up trouble, or a very naive individual.
Having spoken to ex-colleagues in various departments, I can happily tell you that the airline is in all manner of trouble.
OS and the BALPA situation are just the tip of a very large iceberg.
Good luck BALPA, the rest of the airline is depending on you.
PPRuNe Person
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We do not need or want anybody from BALPA or BA - could you just be so kind and leave us alone.
btw: if you don't need or want us, how come you're happy to take our aircraft our engineers and BA funding ~ provided in part by our efforts?
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Wow, so predictable. So many attempts to muddy the waters -
"BA pilots are racist", absolute rubbish - never seen in my 20 years with BA.
"BA pilots are responsible for the lamentable treatment of other airlines' pilots BA bought or were involved with" - absolute rubbish again.
"BA pilots are elitist" - more rubbish, they just joined as a) they were in the right place at the right time, (unfair, but so is life and you cant blame a person for doing that), and b) because the contract was a decent one.
Yet more: "BA pilots are unrealistic", (the heart of 411a's charge), - absolute rubbish again - BALPA have offered the terms BA sought for the OS operation. But no, the truth will ever be obscured in a cloud of carefully orchestrated tosh designed to advance WW's agenda and confuse the real issues.
As to the person who says "why dont we all just go away and leave them to it: right, you get twenty years of my career carrying BA through endless self-inflicted screw-ups by dint of professionalism that went beyond contract for all that time, as with all my colleagues, and then the infliction of endless alterations to my contract, (Sprint, Gap-Closure, etc etc), and you get the accumulated goodwill that we earned and to shaft our futures, and we are meant to say, "fine, go ahead".
I suggest you are either a) woefully naive or, more likely, b) a mischevious management poster, (hello Robin, how's it all going with the master plan to screw your own profession then?).
You will get to do that over the bones of BA, if thats what it takes, and I am sure WW knows that. Any amount of delaying tactics in court will not obscure the realities. As to the guy who saied he was looking forward to taking over our jobs - a) why didn't you apply years ago - theres' been opportunity enough since the 80's to do so and b) you can forget coming in on the backs of our redundancies - it will never happen
"BA pilots are racist", absolute rubbish - never seen in my 20 years with BA.
"BA pilots are responsible for the lamentable treatment of other airlines' pilots BA bought or were involved with" - absolute rubbish again.
"BA pilots are elitist" - more rubbish, they just joined as a) they were in the right place at the right time, (unfair, but so is life and you cant blame a person for doing that), and b) because the contract was a decent one.
Yet more: "BA pilots are unrealistic", (the heart of 411a's charge), - absolute rubbish again - BALPA have offered the terms BA sought for the OS operation. But no, the truth will ever be obscured in a cloud of carefully orchestrated tosh designed to advance WW's agenda and confuse the real issues.
As to the person who says "why dont we all just go away and leave them to it: right, you get twenty years of my career carrying BA through endless self-inflicted screw-ups by dint of professionalism that went beyond contract for all that time, as with all my colleagues, and then the infliction of endless alterations to my contract, (Sprint, Gap-Closure, etc etc), and you get the accumulated goodwill that we earned and to shaft our futures, and we are meant to say, "fine, go ahead".
I suggest you are either a) woefully naive or, more likely, b) a mischevious management poster, (hello Robin, how's it all going with the master plan to screw your own profession then?).
You will get to do that over the bones of BA, if thats what it takes, and I am sure WW knows that. Any amount of delaying tactics in court will not obscure the realities. As to the guy who saied he was looking forward to taking over our jobs - a) why didn't you apply years ago - theres' been opportunity enough since the 80's to do so and b) you can forget coming in on the backs of our redundancies - it will never happen
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I had a post on here which pointed out the difference between the BACC who sold their future colleagues downstream regarding their pension entitlements 
and the Grangemouth strikers who, whatever else you may think of them, are at least striking to protect their future colleagues' benefits .
I pointed out how typical this was of the BACC, particularly with reference to the way they seek support from us, their Industry colleagues, whilst calling any OS joinees or aspirants SCABS. I concluded that BACC seemed to control BALPA, and were only interested in preserving their own narrow status quo.
I suggested that Ba resembled the BL monolith of the 70s, and gave as examples all the recent publicity.
Someone removed that post - I wonder why. More BA fact distortion and apparent censorship. Pathetic, typical, but pathetic.
and the Grangemouth strikers who, whatever else you may think of them, are at least striking to protect their future colleagues' benefits . I pointed out how typical this was of the BACC, particularly with reference to the way they seek support from us, their Industry colleagues, whilst calling any OS joinees or aspirants SCABS. I concluded that BACC seemed to control BALPA, and were only interested in preserving their own narrow status quo.
I suggested that Ba resembled the BL monolith of the 70s, and gave as examples all the recent publicity.
Someone removed that post - I wonder why. More BA fact distortion and apparent censorship. Pathetic, typical, but pathetic.
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If a post offends it offends.
If it criticises BA, then you're for the chop.
If it personally slanders someone, your IP details will be surrendered....and you'll end up publically and abjectly grovelling as well as quite possibly parting with a lot of money.
If it criticises BA, then you're for the chop.
If it personally slanders someone, your IP details will be surrendered....and you'll end up publically and abjectly grovelling as well as quite possibly parting with a lot of money.
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Stop writing rubbish the pair of you.
BA have no sway here and I have no interest in either angering or placating them. I couldn't care less. What I DO care about are people who deliberately drag a thread way off topic, troll the forum or spoil what are supposed be serious subjects for other members for the simple reason that all of these increase my workload. Posts will also be deleted if they come from self-serving attention whores.
I don't think I can explain it any more simply.
BA have no sway here and I have no interest in either angering or placating them. I couldn't care less. What I DO care about are people who deliberately drag a thread way off topic, troll the forum or spoil what are supposed be serious subjects for other members for the simple reason that all of these increase my workload. Posts will also be deleted if they come from self-serving attention whores.
I don't think I can explain it any more simply.