Cathay pilot 'sacked for Top Gun stunt'
Nemo Me Impune Lacessit
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PBL - The London aviation insurance market is over capacity and any of the dozens of underwriters that write CX and wanted to come off the CX risk would be replaced by a queue of underwriters trying to get on the risk. CX is triple A business and very sought after. There has been no actuarial change so no need to even consider an increase in the premium.
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Bronx,
Couldn't have put it better myself... I've taught pre-solo PPL pilots to fly down the runway at 60', 30' 10'..... height perception is an early gain... FOR VISUAL PILOTS!
This is the 777 CP... I'm sure he knew what height he was at, his RA would've told him so, if his FO hadn't (I'm pretty sure he was at the time). Plus... HOW long had he flown this type for? Enough, I think, for them to make him CP?
This is what pilots do people... you all drive cars, we all drive planes! You do yours, we'll do ours. Yes, agreed, management took offense because he didn't ask them first (or so they say), but he wasn't trying to kill people in the process!
Did anyone pull the CVR tapes yet.. are there any stereo-typical rantings being uttered (usually heard at this altitude?) No? Then I guess it was all just good fun then?
Yes, FAR's, blah blah blah's, it happens at this airfield EVERYDAY.... it's not like every CX flight will start and end with a "fly-past", is it?
Get over it, a professional pilot doing a nice-looking fly-past. Case closed.
Kill the media, kill the management's opinion.... a gross over-reaction to a safe piece of flying. If there is a single (flying) person reading this who hasn't done it... ever... better you be the next Pope!
Couldn't have put it better myself... I've taught pre-solo PPL pilots to fly down the runway at 60', 30' 10'..... height perception is an early gain... FOR VISUAL PILOTS!
This is the 777 CP... I'm sure he knew what height he was at, his RA would've told him so, if his FO hadn't (I'm pretty sure he was at the time). Plus... HOW long had he flown this type for? Enough, I think, for them to make him CP?
This is what pilots do people... you all drive cars, we all drive planes! You do yours, we'll do ours. Yes, agreed, management took offense because he didn't ask them first (or so they say), but he wasn't trying to kill people in the process!
Did anyone pull the CVR tapes yet.. are there any stereo-typical rantings being uttered (usually heard at this altitude?) No? Then I guess it was all just good fun then?
Yes, FAR's, blah blah blah's, it happens at this airfield EVERYDAY.... it's not like every CX flight will start and end with a "fly-past", is it?
Get over it, a professional pilot doing a nice-looking fly-past. Case closed.
Kill the media, kill the management's opinion.... a gross over-reaction to a safe piece of flying. If there is a single (flying) person reading this who hasn't done it... ever... better you be the next Pope!
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Ali Sadikin
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim.
If my memory serves me right, there was a 1998 A320 prang at Basel Mulhouse and another at Habsheim.
There was also a A330 crash by the Airbus test flight.
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PBL
I was about to respond to your post 194, but Parabellum has already done so. He's right; I have nothing to add.
Re the VC10 flyby pic:
I didn't take it. Wish I had, or been standing next to the photographer.
Here's another favourite (again, not my picture), coincidentally flown by a pilot who went on to fly for Cathay after leaving the RAF.
Granted it's mil, and he was an exceptional pilot, trained and current in such flying, but there were still some 'experts' and prophets of doom who forecast he'd die one day.
He did eventually, of natural causes aged 77.
Bartholomew
I suspect, from reading some posts, that there might be a few who never have and never even wanted to - in any aircraft.
FL
I was about to respond to your post 194, but Parabellum has already done so. He's right; I have nothing to add.
Re the VC10 flyby pic:
I didn't take it. Wish I had, or been standing next to the photographer.
Here's another favourite (again, not my picture), coincidentally flown by a pilot who went on to fly for Cathay after leaving the RAF.
Granted it's mil, and he was an exceptional pilot, trained and current in such flying, but there were still some 'experts' and prophets of doom who forecast he'd die one day.
He did eventually, of natural causes aged 77.
Bartholomew
If there is a single (flying) person reading this who hasn't done it... ever
FL
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Ali Sadikin
Apologies guys, looks like memory did not serve me well! It was a A320 flight from Mulhouse with a flypast at Habsheim in 1988.
Apologies guys, looks like memory did not serve me well! It was a A320 flight from Mulhouse with a flypast at Habsheim in 1988.
The aircraft in question took off from Basel-Mulhouse (LFSB) for a display at Mulhouse-Habsheim (LFGB).
The other incidents you mention were not flypasts.
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Flypast, flyover, overfly, buzzing...whatever, he did it and pranged it.
A330 test flt; well I guess he is trying to show that even with all the exhaustive preparations associated by a highly qualified test pilot and crew something unintended still cropped up.
A330 test flt; well I guess he is trying to show that even with all the exhaustive preparations associated by a highly qualified test pilot and crew something unintended still cropped up.
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FL....
I suspect, from reading some posts, that there might be a few who never have and never even wanted to - in any aircraft.
Are you trying to make a point? If so. I missed it (subtle as it was, so supposed to be, perhaps?).
PS What was the point? If you want proof.. you aren't going to get it. Real pilots wouldn't ask, and real pilots wouldn't give. It's a funny game... they stick to themselves.. (selfish buggers).. I guess you'll just have to take their word for it?)
PPS I really like that photo... which site is it on? If you were there, can we please have date, time, location, type, pilot, car type, variation, weather, authorisation... just so we can get "post-authorisation" for said pilot.... just in case someone wants to sue him for over-flight rights and In-Case-He-Crashed rights? A postal code would work????????????
How silly has this become?
Here: Link
Lots more, same pilot, various aircraft.
If you haven't already seen it, the video in post 40 of that thread is worth watching.
I suspect, from reading some posts, that there might be a few who never have and never even wanted to - in any aircraft.
Are you trying to make a point? If so. I missed it (subtle as it was, so supposed to be, perhaps?).
PS What was the point? If you want proof.. you aren't going to get it. Real pilots wouldn't ask, and real pilots wouldn't give. It's a funny game... they stick to themselves.. (selfish buggers).. I guess you'll just have to take their word for it?)
PPS I really like that photo... which site is it on? If you were there, can we please have date, time, location, type, pilot, car type, variation, weather, authorisation... just so we can get "post-authorisation" for said pilot.... just in case someone wants to sue him for over-flight rights and In-Case-He-Crashed rights? A postal code would work????????????
How silly has this become?
I really like that photo... which site is it on?
Lots more, same pilot, various aircraft.
If you haven't already seen it, the video in post 40 of that thread is worth watching.
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The guy did nothing wrong!
If his management thinks he did, they must sort it out between themselves.
Sorry... He broke THEIR rules...........
as they chose to read them after the "event". (after seeing it on the Net!!)
But why after the pictures, the champagne, the revelry?
If he was the Shrek of the CX world... why the photos of him delivering the a/c? Why banish him to the Underword?
This stinks of Fine Young Cannibals "They Drive Me Crazy"...
Okay, not the same lyrics, but close enough, and the emotions are very close. What are these guys up to? "How to entice new pilots 101"
Nah, you need to better than that dudes!
If his management thinks he did, they must sort it out between themselves.
Sorry... He broke THEIR rules...........
as they chose to read them after the "event". (after seeing it on the Net!!)
But why after the pictures, the champagne, the revelry?
If he was the Shrek of the CX world... why the photos of him delivering the a/c? Why banish him to the Underword?
This stinks of Fine Young Cannibals "They Drive Me Crazy"...
Okay, not the same lyrics, but close enough, and the emotions are very close. What are these guys up to? "How to entice new pilots 101"
Nah, you need to better than that dudes!
Last edited by Bartholomew; 27th Feb 2008 at 23:45.
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The fly-by is an approved maneuver and was performed in textbook fashion.If he didnt get ATC clearance,he should have.He doesnt need clearance from the CEO.On board the aircraft he outranks the CEO.
The CEO really missed his opportunity on this one.After the flight,he should have fired him(just to let him know whos boss on the ground) and then immediately re-hired him with a raise(to show he has a GSOH).
The CEO really missed his opportunity on this one.After the flight,he should have fired him(just to let him know whos boss on the ground) and then immediately re-hired him with a raise(to show he has a GSOH).
This thread’s grounded itself on a well-charted Pprune shoal. On one side those who would see any expression of individualism, anything slightly beneath the nanny state bar, as suicidal and likely to take half humanity with it, versus those who see a flyby with the combination of verve,finesse, experience, intimacy with the machinery as an excellent way to promote the corporate image. Perhaps even to consolidate a good working relationship with some key people at the factory, not the management but the people who’ll remember and do the little special things you need on the next aircraft.
Why not assume to begin with that the flyby was approved by ATC, that there was a thorough briefing that began on the ground well before the flight – speed, flap setting, how low to go, what if and all the rest - and that everyone on board was informed beforehand that a flyby was to be performed? Why not, for that matter, give the man the benefit of the doubt and assume that he checked with the tower for bird activity beforehand?
Would it be too generous to assume that the flyby might even have been rehearsed in the sim before the event itself?
I for one find it difficult to imagine a seasoned captain doing it any other way, much less tearing around and doing an impromptu, unrehearsed, unauthorised farewell buzz of his own back. With the brass on board? Get real.
As a footnote, my background is shipping, slower in knots but not dissimilar in the cross-section of individualists, perfectionists, corporate politicians and blind post-facto opinionists. The personal reading is that whatever went wrong happened in the in-house politics afterwards. To me, at least, the whole episode reflects poorly on Cathay Pacific leadership.
Why not assume to begin with that the flyby was approved by ATC, that there was a thorough briefing that began on the ground well before the flight – speed, flap setting, how low to go, what if and all the rest - and that everyone on board was informed beforehand that a flyby was to be performed? Why not, for that matter, give the man the benefit of the doubt and assume that he checked with the tower for bird activity beforehand?
Would it be too generous to assume that the flyby might even have been rehearsed in the sim before the event itself?
I for one find it difficult to imagine a seasoned captain doing it any other way, much less tearing around and doing an impromptu, unrehearsed, unauthorised farewell buzz of his own back. With the brass on board? Get real.
As a footnote, my background is shipping, slower in knots but not dissimilar in the cross-section of individualists, perfectionists, corporate politicians and blind post-facto opinionists. The personal reading is that whatever went wrong happened in the in-house politics afterwards. To me, at least, the whole episode reflects poorly on Cathay Pacific leadership.
Just to be complete
The speed limit in any airport airspace Class B[and transition corridors therein],C or D=200KIAS or 230MPH
not sure if he busted speed or not?---- as to all journos all aircraft are moving at 500mph
The speed limit in any airport airspace Class B[and transition corridors therein],C or D=200KIAS or 230MPH
not sure if he busted speed or not?---- as to all journos all aircraft are moving at 500mph
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It was like that
Quote from broadreach:
I for one find it difficult to imagine a seasoned captain doing it any other way, much less tearing around and doing an impromptu, unrehearsed, unauthorised farewell buzz of his own back. With the brass on board? Get real.
Unquote.
Actually that appears (from Fragrant harbour) to be exactly what happend! No sim, no brief, just ego perhaps
I for one find it difficult to imagine a seasoned captain doing it any other way, much less tearing around and doing an impromptu, unrehearsed, unauthorised farewell buzz of his own back. With the brass on board? Get real.
Unquote.
Actually that appears (from Fragrant harbour) to be exactly what happend! No sim, no brief, just ego perhaps
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It's not the 1st time CX did a low fly pass upon delivery of a B777
http://blog.seattle-deliveries.com/2...-delivery.html
But how come the captain who flew B-KPC didn't get fired?
JA
http://blog.seattle-deliveries.com/2...-delivery.html
But how come the captain who flew B-KPC didn't get fired?
JA
If that's really the case, HKJunkie, the assumptions I've suggested above can be crossed out one by one and the captain can eventually be found guilty beyond reasonable doubt etc. What's difficult to stomach is the hasty assumption of guilt here, on Pprune. With apologies for not having read up on Fragrant Harbour before posting. 
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It's not the 1st time CX did a low fly pass upon delivery of a B777
But how come the captain who flew B-KPC didn't get fired?
But how come the captain who flew B-KPC didn't get fired?
There are rumours floating around CX that the fallout from the Flyby may not be over yet...
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What ever arguments you want to make for or against the fly past, one thing you can't argue about is CX's PR department, top class. They sure made sure the word got out, as with the celebrity mantra, any publicity is good publicity, or so they say.
Pratt get Pratted?
There are rumours floating around CX that the fallout from the Flyby may not be over yet...
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The story made CNN International this morning (Hong Kong time)
The (female) anchor used the word "moronic" in respect of the conduct which resulted in the dismissal and a top gun caption below a still of the aircraft .
The comment reminded me how banal these anchors are and for the first time I had to agree with that segment of posters who refer to JOURNOS and their "scoops" in less than flattering terms.
Was the 777 in a special livery??
If so will CX repaint lest it attract a certain fame or infamy ??
The (female) anchor used the word "moronic" in respect of the conduct which resulted in the dismissal and a top gun caption below a still of the aircraft .
The comment reminded me how banal these anchors are and for the first time I had to agree with that segment of posters who refer to JOURNOS and their "scoops" in less than flattering terms.
Was the 777 in a special livery??
If so will CX repaint lest it attract a certain fame or infamy ??
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Quote Mr Q:
The story made CNN International this morning (Hong Kong time)
The (female) anchor used the word "moronic" in respect of the conduct which resulted in the dismissal and a top gun caption below a still of the aircraft
Earl:
These reporters are sinking to the lower levels everyday.
Would love to see this Captain grant CNN an interview and put them in there place.
One thing to report what he did may have been wrong, but this was a really bad choice of words and about as unprofessional as you can get.
Google: Moronic,
mo·ron (môrn, mr-)
1. A stupid person; a dolt.
2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
mo·ronic (m-rnk, mô-) adj.
The story made CNN International this morning (Hong Kong time)
The (female) anchor used the word "moronic" in respect of the conduct which resulted in the dismissal and a top gun caption below a still of the aircraft
Earl:
These reporters are sinking to the lower levels everyday.
Would love to see this Captain grant CNN an interview and put them in there place.
One thing to report what he did may have been wrong, but this was a really bad choice of words and about as unprofessional as you can get.
Google: Moronic,
mo·ron (môrn, mr-)
1. A stupid person; a dolt.
2. Psychology A person of mild mental retardation having a mental age of from 7 to 12 years and generally having communication and social skills enabling some degree of academic or vocational education. The term belongs to a classification system no longer in use and is now considered offensive.
mo·ronic (m-rnk, mô-) adj.
Last edited by Earl; 28th Feb 2008 at 04:54.
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Did he set QNH when he should have set QNE (or the other way around depending on conditions on the day...)? It would have been a weak defence though. Still, no one can take away the fact that he was the man that done it 
I know he shouldn't have and all that, but you can't help but feel a bit jealous that he did it, and I didn't...
I know he shouldn't have and all that, but you can't help but feel a bit jealous that he did it, and I didn't...
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Just been informed by one of the 49'ers (49 pilots sacked by management thugs some years ago for no reason other than to intimidate the pilot workforce) that the Captain sacked for the 777 flyby (lowest height 28ft being reported) was one of the management thugs,what comes around goes around,how sweet it is!