Cathay pilot 'sacked for Top Gun stunt'
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Now that the episode has become famous/infamous.... what is the likelihood of the regulatory authorities ( HK or US depending on jurisdiction) taking criminal proceedings or regulatory action against CX or individuals (or both) on safety endangerment violations notwithstanding that it was not a revenue flight???
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Good.
Glad this thread has shifted direction. There is absolutely no doubt that this minor event/departure posed no danger whatsoever to anyone involved.
CX management are a shower of complete c
s. The proud history of this establishment is being eroded by management on a daily basis.
How many CX management staff even know who "Marco Polo" was?
They are getting my card back. I'll be using Kenyan, Ethiopian, Thai, Emirates, Philippines, etc from now on.
these s
Sorry about the rant...
Best,
Sicknote
Glad this thread has shifted direction. There is absolutely no doubt that this minor event/departure posed no danger whatsoever to anyone involved.
CX management are a shower of complete c
s. The proud history of this establishment is being eroded by management on a daily basis. How many CX management staff even know who "Marco Polo" was?
They are getting my card back. I'll be using Kenyan, Ethiopian, Thai, Emirates, Philippines, etc from now on.
these sSorry about the rant...
Best,
Sicknote
The deafening silence...
Quote from the link to the UK "Mail on Sunday" article:
Wilkinson, who was sacked with three months' pay, did not return calls or text messages yesterday.
[Unquote]
For the sake of argument, let's assume this is a more accurate statement than their contention that the fly-by was conducted at "320 mph" (the headline says "350") - plainly unsupportable if you analyse the photos and video.
So why would a distinguished long-term senior employee, who has already been dismissed in a fashion which is at least controversial, find himself unwilling to comment on any of the criticisms which have been levelled PUBLICLY at him? Misinformed allegations in the media, some bordering on the hysterical, are bad enough - but we have got used to them. Smears from aviation professionals - including the hypocritical - are another matter.
Is there any possibility that weasel management has issued a threat, based on the security of his pension arrangements?
Wilkinson, who was sacked with three months' pay, did not return calls or text messages yesterday.
[Unquote]
For the sake of argument, let's assume this is a more accurate statement than their contention that the fly-by was conducted at "320 mph" (the headline says "350") - plainly unsupportable if you analyse the photos and video.
So why would a distinguished long-term senior employee, who has already been dismissed in a fashion which is at least controversial, find himself unwilling to comment on any of the criticisms which have been levelled PUBLICLY at him? Misinformed allegations in the media, some bordering on the hysterical, are bad enough - but we have got used to them. Smears from aviation professionals - including the hypocritical - are another matter.
Is there any possibility that weasel management has issued a threat, based on the security of his pension arrangements?
Last edited by Chris Scott; 2nd Mar 2008 at 23:54. Reason: Spelling...
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So why would a distinguished long-term senior employee, who has already been dismissed in a fashion which is at least controversial, find himself unwilling to comment on any of the criticisms ......
Or maybe he's got the good sense not to talk to journalists, period.
He'd be stupid to talk to any journalist but an idiot if he spoke to one who's already written crap like "swooped over a runway", "daredevil stunt", "shocked investigators" and called him a "maverick".
Was the "junior manager" in the article really the mail clerk or do Cathay really employ folk that stupid as managers?
Unless he don't exist and the journalist made it up. Wouldn't be the first time they done that.
Last edited by Bronx; 2nd Mar 2008 at 15:30.
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Maybe he's got the good sense not to talk to journalists about the incident in case they distort anything he says or take it out of context for the sake of their shock horror crap, or appealing against being fired or thinking about legal action against Cathay.
gimmie a break.This a**hole you can bet was not ordered to do the low flypast, so he will truly find himself up the perverbial creek without a paddle.
Just where he belongs...show-off in the AirForce, not in the AirLine.
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Is there any possibility that weasel management has issued a threat, based on the security of his pension arrangements?
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411A
It was just one reason the guy might not be talking to the press. I got no idea if he's talking to his lawyers and I don't know enough about all the facts to have any opinion on if he could win but just because an employee does something wrong don't necessary mean the employer is entitled to fire him. If they go OTT when less punishment would fit the 'crime' the fired employee can get compensation. Don't know if that's how it works in Hong Kong, maybe it's different there.
I know you see everything in black and white, usually black where other pilots are concerned, but not everyone does.
B.
It was just one reason the guy might not be talking to the press. I got no idea if he's talking to his lawyers and I don't know enough about all the facts to have any opinion on if he could win but just because an employee does something wrong don't necessary mean the employer is entitled to fire him. If they go OTT when less punishment would fit the 'crime' the fired employee can get compensation. Don't know if that's how it works in Hong Kong, maybe it's different there.
I know you see everything in black and white, usually black where other pilots are concerned, but not everyone does.
B.
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Sacking of Chief Pilot
The saddest thing in all this saga is that some people from the sacked pilot's own company have been quick to stick the knife between his ribs with personal attacks, not only on his doing of his management job, but also his personal life.
Those guilty of these sort of comments have probably been admonished by the Chief Pilot at some time, likely with just cause. Seems the "Tall Poppy" syndrome lives on within CX.
Those guilty of these sort of comments have probably been admonished by the Chief Pilot at some time, likely with just cause. Seems the "Tall Poppy" syndrome lives on within CX.
Last edited by Old Fella; 3rd Mar 2008 at 10:36.
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From Avweb today
Fired Pilot's Boss In Cockpit During Fly-By
As we reported last week, Ian Wilkinson, a senior Cathay Pacific captain, was fired three weeks after he did a high-speed, low-level pass over a Seattle-area airport in a new Boeing 777 he was delivering from the factory. It wasn’t the stunt that got him fired, it was the fact that he didn’t have permission to perform the fly-by, something the airline occasionally allows for airshows. But a story in Sunday’s Asian World News, reprinted by The Earth Times, raises the question of just how much authority Wilkinson needed, since the chairman of the airline, Christopher Pratt, was in a cockpit jumpseat for the whole performance. The airline confirmed that fact but said Pratt, who runs one of the biggest airlines in Asia, couldn’t be expected to know that the stunt wasn’t “authorized,” "The chairman is not an aviator and he was fully aware that the captain was in full command of the flight," an unidentified spokeswoman said. "There was no request or suggestion from anyone in Cathay Pacific for the fly-by to take place. The decision was entirely that of the captain in command." The spokeswoman also denied that Wilkinson’s firing had more to do with the publicity surrounding the stunt, which was featured on YouTube, than company protocol. “The YouTube video only confirmed what was already becoming known. The internal investigation was well underway prior to the video appearing online,” she claimed. However, an unidentified source reportedly told a German magazine that it was felt the incident “makes our airline look like a bunch of cowboys.” Wilkinson was paid three months’ severance and keeps his company pension. He has not been available for comment. His maid reportedly told the newspaper he’s on holiday in Thailand.
Fired Pilot's Boss In Cockpit During Fly-By
As we reported last week, Ian Wilkinson, a senior Cathay Pacific captain, was fired three weeks after he did a high-speed, low-level pass over a Seattle-area airport in a new Boeing 777 he was delivering from the factory. It wasn’t the stunt that got him fired, it was the fact that he didn’t have permission to perform the fly-by, something the airline occasionally allows for airshows. But a story in Sunday’s Asian World News, reprinted by The Earth Times, raises the question of just how much authority Wilkinson needed, since the chairman of the airline, Christopher Pratt, was in a cockpit jumpseat for the whole performance. The airline confirmed that fact but said Pratt, who runs one of the biggest airlines in Asia, couldn’t be expected to know that the stunt wasn’t “authorized,” "The chairman is not an aviator and he was fully aware that the captain was in full command of the flight," an unidentified spokeswoman said. "There was no request or suggestion from anyone in Cathay Pacific for the fly-by to take place. The decision was entirely that of the captain in command." The spokeswoman also denied that Wilkinson’s firing had more to do with the publicity surrounding the stunt, which was featured on YouTube, than company protocol. “The YouTube video only confirmed what was already becoming known. The internal investigation was well underway prior to the video appearing online,” she claimed. However, an unidentified source reportedly told a German magazine that it was felt the incident “makes our airline look like a bunch of cowboys.” Wilkinson was paid three months’ severance and keeps his company pension. He has not been available for comment. His maid reportedly told the newspaper he’s on holiday in Thailand.
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Which Top Gun Stunt?
I do not quite understand what all this is about. The maneuver they were flying would certainly not qualify as aerobatic and flying close to the ground in a transport category aircraft is not at all unusual - at an airport, that is.
And: real 'Top Gun' aviators will probably just raise an eyebrow or so, when watching this video.
The only thing I can see is reckless operation acc. to FARs, if it turns out that the pilots did not state their intentions prior to this fly-by and received the appropriate clearance.
I can see the point though why the management is nervous. Showing off sometimes results in unnecessary and silly screw-ups - like the one in the A320 in France in the 80s, which most of us will remember...
And: real 'Top Gun' aviators will probably just raise an eyebrow or so, when watching this video.
The only thing I can see is reckless operation acc. to FARs, if it turns out that the pilots did not state their intentions prior to this fly-by and received the appropriate clearance.
I can see the point though why the management is nervous. Showing off sometimes results in unnecessary and silly screw-ups - like the one in the A320 in France in the 80s, which most of us will remember...
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a fly past .....so what !!
It seems many of you are so quick to judge and in such a hurry to see the complete end of any freedom/discretion we may still posses in this thankless job. Small wonder we're left with an industry in such a state.
Have any of you judging this have actually ever flown a heavy/large jet low level or in a flypast ?,
we should be far more concerned with the airline's treatment of the crew.
Really guys what have we become!
Have any of you judging this have actually ever flown a heavy/large jet low level or in a flypast ?,
we should be far more concerned with the airline's treatment of the crew.
Really guys what have we become!
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a fly past .....so what !!
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700th 777 ... for Cathay!
Boeing has delivered the 700th 777 ... to Cathay Pacific.
http://www.jetphotos.net/news/index....&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Wonder if they did anything special to mark the occasion ... dare I say, a flypast?
http://www.jetphotos.net/news/index....&c=1&tb=1&pb=1
Wonder if they did anything special to mark the occasion ... dare I say, a flypast?
Anonymity
Not sure how far I'm digressing from the rights or wrongs of the fly-by but, having read some of apalling posts on the Fragrant Harbour thread, the issue of anonymity kept hitting me over the head: regardless of how anonymous someone might think he/she is, how could they possibly wish the plagues expressed therein on a colleague?
Whatever the reason, by coincidence the NY Times has a blog going on the issue of email anonimity... in blogs, and whether that led to the suicide of Paul Tilley, a DDB (advertising agency) executive in Chicago, a few days ago. Did the personal attacks contribute to his decision etc and should anonymity be abolished etc. Most of the respondents in the blog linked to below seem to think not (unsure whether the link works for non-subscribers; if not try googling "Paul Tilley").
Anonymity is a question occasionally raised in Pprune. And the CP Seattle fly-by fallout's created a fair amount of pro- and con- discussion but nowhere near the anonymous vitriol expressed in FH.
And I thought my old company had its politics! Yikes.
The link is http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/bu...yt&oref=slogin
Somehow I doubt whether Captain Wilkinson is entertaining similar thoughts from a beach somewhere in Thailand. I rather like to imagine him designing, in his own mind, Christmas cards for some of the the anonymous FH posters. Or, perhaps, cards for 1st April.
Whatever the reason, by coincidence the NY Times has a blog going on the issue of email anonimity... in blogs, and whether that led to the suicide of Paul Tilley, a DDB (advertising agency) executive in Chicago, a few days ago. Did the personal attacks contribute to his decision etc and should anonymity be abolished etc. Most of the respondents in the blog linked to below seem to think not (unsure whether the link works for non-subscribers; if not try googling "Paul Tilley").
Anonymity is a question occasionally raised in Pprune. And the CP Seattle fly-by fallout's created a fair amount of pro- and con- discussion but nowhere near the anonymous vitriol expressed in FH.
And I thought my old company had its politics! Yikes.
The link is http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/03/bu...yt&oref=slogin
Somehow I doubt whether Captain Wilkinson is entertaining similar thoughts from a beach somewhere in Thailand. I rather like to imagine him designing, in his own mind, Christmas cards for some of the the anonymous FH posters. Or, perhaps, cards for 1st April.
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Bye Bye Fly Bye
Back when Dan's went on the last day, B1-11, we all did fly bye byes at LGW and BOH if traffic permitted.
Some very low very fast at idle and very very noisy on the pull up.
Difference?Guess we were already fired. and no flydras or videos to record them ,Shame.
Ian, Etihad are looking for Engrish speaking pirates.
Great video.
Good luck!
Alt
Some very low very fast at idle and very very noisy on the pull up.
Difference?Guess we were already fired. and no flydras or videos to record them ,Shame.
Ian, Etihad are looking for Engrish speaking pirates.
Great video.
Good luck!
Alt
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From my standpoint its just a sad story. An innocent flyby, well excecuted and cool manouver. Dangerous? Well, you can say yes but so is getting out of bed each morning. My thougts go out to the pilots. You meant well, you did a cool thing - SAFELY - everybody had some fun then you got fired. Shame.
Last edited by BigginHillBoy; 4th Mar 2008 at 14:38.
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Prima Facie
Canned Cathay Pacific Pilot Had High-Level Company In Cockpit
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...0-f1c0403c30d3&
http://www.aero-news.net/index.cfm?C...0-f1c0403c30d3&