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official : Swissair filed for bankruptcy. Sabena next

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official : Swissair filed for bankruptcy. Sabena next

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Old 2nd Oct 2001, 19:08
  #21 (permalink)  

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Swissair
Finished, I don't believe it?
The worlds gone b loody mad!
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Old 2nd Oct 2001, 20:06
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Latest radio reports here in Geneva suggest that passengers in Zurich have been told that their tickets will not be reimbursed. The radio report also said that a lawsuit has been filed against the board of administration, demanding their imprisonment. I did not follow who brought the lawsuit. The radio also says that either Sabena or the Belgian Government has asked for 1.5 billion SFr. in damages.

(Despite this being on the radio, I consider all of the above to be rumours.)

Momo

Momo
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Old 2nd Oct 2001, 20:13
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Thanks for very informative and level headed background reports chaps, particularly Tricky Woo. What a tragedy! Yet another brilliant airline brought down by bizarre Management antics. Did Ayling work for them at all? Swissair was one of the mainstays of airline life- the best respected airline in the industry. Sympathies to the many staff who must be wondering what the hell is going on.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 00:55
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Unhappy

An Expression of Sadness

Let me state right at the beginning that I’m only a wannabe and I do not financially, nor professionally depend on Swissair, but you can’t imagine how emotionally affected I am. And I think I speak for a big part of the Swiss people ,the Swiss aviators and especially the wannabes.

Since 70 years Swissair has been a symbol of our national pride. It has been a symbol of safety, punctuality and good service. And last but not least it carried our flag on the tail around the world, marked our presence in the world and showed that the best airline comes from Switzerland. It has always been the deram of every little boy to become a pilot and in Switzerland that meant automatically a Swissair pilot. My father applied at Swissair in the early 60ies. He was rejected, but still, as aviator he remained a Swissair fan. When I was a little boy I often went to ZRH with him to see the planes. And I always said: “I’m gonna be a Swissair Jumbo captain”. Ten, eleven or twelve years ago as schoolboys, our class could visit the former SLS (means approx. Swiss Aviation School). From then I knew that I’ll choose the profession of pilot. I think at this time Swissair was relesed into the free market. During this ten years we heard some bad and worse news. But we always said: “forget it, Swissair is a good enterprise”. We simply couldn’t imagine that this enterprise can run out of money. Then we saw how lower middle class airlines joined the Qualiflyer Group and how the best airline besides Swissair (Austrian) jumped off. But we just said: “don’t worry, Swissair is a good enterprise, it can’t run out of money”. Then Bruggisser was fired and the whole disorder came to the daylight. Slowly we began to realize that Swissair is in troubles. "But OK, every company gets once in troubles, Swissair will manage this. And if they were in serious trobles the government would help them, because this is a national interest". And then in the last days we realized that there are serious problems of cash. But we thought: “ The banks will give credits and if not the govt will help”. But nobody helped and now Swissair is bankrupt. Impossible,.....incerdible...... Ervery government would have helped its national carrier, but ours didn’t....... It’s just incredible...... OK, Swissair was in the free market but somehow it was still a state enterprise, people identified with Swissair, it was just something really Swiss. I can’t believe yet the news of today....... Nobody thought that it would happen so fast and that it would be so surprising...... Maybe we didn’t want it to see, maybe we were all blinded of our national symbol and didn’t ask ourselfs wether the strategy of the past 10 years was right........

I’m not so concerned about finding a pilot job maybe I’ll stay a wannabe a bit longer, I do not really worry about that. But still I’m very, very sad that Swissair stopped to exist, because I think it is or was the aim or dream of every Swiss aviator to become a Swissar captain. And I’m very, very sorry for all those fellow pilots and ground staff fellows, who will lose their jobs. Good luck to all of you!

So, I’m done, wanna get rid of my frustration. Comments and reactions are not expected but still welcome.


380

Good bye Swissair
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 01:30
  #25 (permalink)  
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Arrow

Even the Swiss banks did not want to get involved with a debt of 10 billion US dollars
This did not go well with the swiss apparently. There is a talk of the board of administrators being sued and emprisoned. So its not always pilot who pay the price.
By domino effect i fear that many airlines will be affected, not only swissair group
(LTU, LOT, SAA, Sabena (Sabena has no more cash to pay salaries this month), AOM, Air liberte) but various code-shares also.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 03:06
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Well, it's obviously a sad day and I do hope that the banks succeed in creating a successor airline which can rise from Swissair's ashes - not least because I did rather enjoy the chocolates they served on their flights... It's quite possibly a smart deal for the Swiss banks, so long as they can flip out of their position before too long. I don't think Osama Bin Laden needs to worry at all about his deposits...

But it's also a very important day for international aviation. The idea that each European country can afford to prop up a national flag carrier surely dies today. One of the contributors above wrote about the emotional importance of Swissair as an ambassador for its country - well, that's all very well, but few contries can afford ambassadors that lose hundreds of millions of dollars every year. Hopefully what this means is that large scale European airline mergers are finally a genuine possibility. BA/KLM may rise from the dead (and indeed BA/Swissair might also have some legs). In any case, British readers can feel some comfort in the prospect that, as the country in Europe with the most successful experience in managing airlines (BA, VS, even EZ - it's a pretty impressive group), the UK's stake in this industry may very well increase.

The second issue highlighted today is the global political position of Switzerland, which has resolutely hidden behind its mountains over the last 30 years in an attempt to pretend that a modern, functional European Community was not coalescing around it. Arguably, had Swissair been an EU airline, it would never have adopted its disastrous strategy of acquiring minority equity stakes in neighbouring countries' airlines in the first place. The situations are scarely comparable, but just as the Sept 11 tragedy has done much to rid Americans of the idea of their exceptionalism, the collapse of Swissair will cause many Swiss to wonder again about the advantages of standing alone.

[ 02 October 2001: Message edited by: J-Class ]
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 05:14
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Unhappy

Bankrupt management precedes bankruptcy. But airlines don't run out of cash overnight. Already in earlier years SR Top Dog Philippe Bruggisser and his gangster management team had siphoned airline revenues into ancillary activities under the SAirGroup enterprise, such as Swissport, Sabena, Swisshotel... It's a shame for the Swiss government, and the Swiss banking group to allow a corrupt management to run such a distinguished airline into the ground.

Since SR is a non EU airline, it's entirely conceivable that Swiss taxpayers will eventually have to pay to resurrect the airline.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 05:50
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Red face

If any of you guys are looking to buy shares in airlines, make sure they are ad hoc charter airlines. Seems they are picking up all the work at the moment. By the way, pilots who left charter airlines to join the scheduled carriers need not re-apply for jobs. Goes without saying, doesn't it ? Besides, the money they pay will not cover your mortgage.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 07:46
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Is there a prison large enough to hold the SR management, past and present? Sure hope so because that is where they clearly belong.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 10:00
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Has been confirmed all SR flights ex Man to be operated by Cossair Jungle jet from 4th oct with different flight numbers also.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 11:45
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Unhappy

As an employee who is directly affected by the whole mess that SR finds itself in, I can express my feelings in this order 1. Sadness, 2. Anger, 3. Anger, 4. Anger 5. Anger ad nauseam. Sadness for all the good people who are about to lose their livelihoods, and the stranded passengers holding worthless coupons. The anger is directed at the mismanagement of the whole group starting with the ludicrous policy of buying a hotch-potch of airlines in order to create an alliance. The whole concept of alliances is to combine strengths, the Qualiflyer alliance combined the strength of Swissair with the weaknesses of other airlines, whilst creating a whole mound of debt. (Austrian excluded, but they left). Why didnt SR bite the bullet and try to join a major alliance? (water under the bridge I know). Sabena!!!!??? I won't even go there. The board of Swissair Group, self enriching fatcats. The Swiss government could and should have done alot more both in terms of subsidy (I know, I know its a private entreprise that should survive or fall on its own), and in terms of pressure on the gnomes of Zurich, who seem prepared to allow a recession in Switzerland. The multiplier effect of SR going down is going to be immense, but I guess that wont be of concern to the *ankers, as they will still get their bonus. Anyway, to all my colleagues and those adversely affected by this situation, good luck, and to those that caused it, I hope you get what you deserve (which of course you wont baecause theres no justice.)

Edited cos I cant type

[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: Mishandled ]
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 12:37
  #32 (permalink)  
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gofer:

Lukas Mühlemann is not just another w anker (sorry, ought to have typed "banker") but also one of that unique Swiss product called "professional board member". A rather fleeting glance across the Swiss corporate landscape will tell you that a strangely large number of boards (Verwaltungsräte) of public companies are made up of more or less the same people. In Switzerland, it's called "Filz" (= felt), in more enlightened parts of the world, it's referred to as incest.

It's the situation where the only qualification you need to get on the board of one company is a seat on another company's board. And how do you get that? You bootlick your way up the part-time army ladder, until one of your officer friends gets you into your first board seat.

Mühlemann is a particularly nasty fellow, for as Credit Suisse CEO he orchestrated the dismissal of an in-house analyst who, early this year, predicted SAir Group would post a CHF 0.5 billion loss. Obviously, Mühlemann either knew better (i.e. that the actual loss was to be far in excess of this figure) or knew nothing at all (i.e. had no idea of the financial position the company whose board he sat on was). The result was that he had this analyst fired and that Credit Suisse kept on issuing BUY recommendations of Swissair stock.

You can look at it either way: either Mühlemann is a con-man or a stupid foocker. Neither should have qualified him for a board seat on any public company, and Credit Suisse would be well advised to get rid of this a$$hole.

 
Old 3rd Oct 2001, 12:38
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In reply to J-Class, the assertion that the EU is 'modern and functional' is laughable. It is the sclerotic practices of the EU, which have contributed to the failure of EU airlines to modernise. Subsidies to Sabena, Alitalia and Air France have been cloaked in other guises. I have no doubt that some form of words by corrupt politicians and bureaucrats in Brussells will provide the vehicle for further subsidies for Sabena.
True democracy does not exist in the EU, leaving the EU Commission and its bureaucrats unaccountable. This 'modern and functional' EU is the road to dictatorship, with which Spain, Portugal, Greece, Italy, Austria and Germany are familiar.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 14:22
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Delboy, I'm not suggesting the EU is perfect, but I really hope you're wrong on how it will react... I see the Swissair collapse as the straw that broke the camel's back on EU subsidies for hopeless airlines. Let them consolidate. The US services its 260m citizens with just over a handful of major airlines... we on the other hand believe any EU member with over 10m people deserves its own heavily loss-making international airline. I can list a whole bunch of flag carriers which would be consolidated out of existence very rapidly given their performance and the limited size of their domestic markets:

Swissair (Switzerland: population 7.2m)
Sabena (Belgium: population 10.2m)
Aer Lingus (Ireland: population 3.8m)
Austrian (Austria: population 8.2m)
KLM (Netherlands: population 16.0m)
TAP (Portugal: population 10.1m)
SAS (Sweden 8.9m; Denmark 5.4m; Norway 4.5m)

It's interesting that you have to aggregate the populations of Switzerland, Austria, Ireland, the Netherlands, Portugal and Norway before you get to 60m, the population of the UK. And that, friends, is one reason why the UK can genuinely support an international airline (or two!)
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 15:30
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A bit simplistic, I think. Swissair was in great shape until 1998. Since then, it is difficult to separate the Swissair activities from the other investments.

The need for synergies and consolidation depends on what the strategic objective is. If the objective is TWD (Total World Domination), consolidation is essential. If the objective is "to be viewed as the airline with the best service in the world", while returning some % on shareholder equity, consolidation is irrelevant. As I reflected some time ago, the Swissair Mission statement is/wan unclear. TWD by controlling foreign airlines? I think not. "To be viewed as the best service..." Nope. So what?

Momo
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 15:52
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Skymarshall, If Crossair are taking the MAN flights where does this leave Flightline who were operating 4 aircraft on behalf of SWR?
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 16:14
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Insularity and incest - there you have it. One of these days the Swiss will have to realise that they'll have to drop their 'We're better than the rest of the world,' attitude and join in with the rest of the world (rather than buying up weaker bits of it or simply standing aloof and looking after money).

They'll also have to get rid of their cosy little incestuous cartels which keep prices sky-high here. This place is riddled with them - everything from petrol to property.

I'd like to think that the apalling and shameful demise of Swissair will be the shock that does it, but I have my doubts. The fat cats never suffer.

My sympathies to the SA staff who (so I hear) while facing the threat of unemployment, continue to deal with (justifiably) irate passengers in a professional manner.

bateleur

[ 03 October 2001: Message edited by: bateleur ]
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 16:36
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Hooking Fell,

Lukas Mühlemann is the ex-CEO of the Swiss branch of the most powerful Consultancy on the planet, plus the existing CEO of the fifth biggest bank in the world. Take it from me, he doesn't need a walking stick to find his way around a balance sheet.

You ask if he's a "nasty f**ker"? Er, let me think about that one for a micro-second.

TW

p.s. For my next performance, I'll enlighten a few of you on yesterday's conduct of the 4th biggest bank in the world, UBS.
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 17:24
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Where was I? Oh yeah, time to have a pop at UBS...

TO RECAP

UBS and Credit Suisse basically buys Crossair, leaving the 'rump' of Swissair to live on oxygen for a month, until various assets, people, aircraft, services, etc, can be moved over. Crossair's future is looking good, then. A quick rebranding later to Swiss Air Lines, and the job's a good 'un.

But how is the remaining 'rump' to survive until then?

During Monday evening's press conference, UBS and Credit Suisse (Marcel Ospel and Lukas Mühlemann) promised rather a lot of money in FULLY SECURED loans to enable the Swissair to remain in service for a month.

The fact is that both the long-term Crossair and the short-term Swissair deals are extremely viable. Great idea, to be honest.

Before, during and after the press conference, that poor sod Mario Corti stressed to all and sundry that if the Swissair dosh wasn't in their account by 10:00am, then he'd have no choice but to suspend the Swissair services.

UBS failed to put the money into the account, and the rest is sad recent history.

PUBLIC CONJECTURE

So why wasn't the money handed over? Seeing as Mario Corti immediately went public with the fact that in spite of repeated attempts to contact Marcel Ospel (UBS), no reply was given before, on or even after the deadline had passed. Corti then outlined the sad story that he had had conversation after conversation with Ospel's assistant who basically informed him that Ospel was washing his hair that morning, and could not be contacted.

So, off we go with the conspiracy theories: "This was always the plan by UBS to let Swissair go to the debtors, while remaining in ownership of Crossair". UBS has a far larger exposure to Swissair than Credit Suisse (As I explained in a previous post) so maybe this is their way of trying to ease their way out of it.

Therefore, UBS are this week's example of ruthless, evil capitalists. Naughty, naughty UBS.

Meanwhile, we've got bomb threats at UBS's headquarters at Paradeplatz, plus a bunch of Swissair staff marching on UBS Warburg's building near the airport, waving pitchforks and burning torches.

Also, people all over Switzerland are now closing their UBS accounts, I kid you not!

TRICKY WOO'S ANALYSIS

What a load of bollocks.

By ensuring that Swissair suspends its services, UBS and Credit Suisse stand to lose access to what was the credible, reputable Swissair brand. The last thing they wanted to do was to ****** up Swissair. Furthermore, a fully collapsed company is a much harder proposition when it comes to recovering or transferring assets.

Nah, it doesn't rub.

TRICKY WOO'S THEORY

Never underestimate the capacity for the fourth and fifth largest banks in the world to simply f**k it up. Listen to me, folks, 'cos I know what I'm talking about in this respect.

A couple of us here have put our heads together and came up with the following scenario:

UBS underestimate the seriousness of Corti's deadline, but basically wanted to get the money over promptly, anyway. Marcel Ospel hops onto an aircraft to New York (More on this later) leaving instructions to get the money transferred over.

As far as he's concerned, his work is done. "Thanks, Supermarcel!"

The most senior payments clerk in UBS (1st class, with commendations in the field) gets into work yesterday morning, only to find a payment instruction for zillions of Swiss Francs lying on the keyboard. The clerk immediately does... absolutely nothing, 'cos there's something incomplete on the instruction, a missing signature, or whatever. "More than me job's worth, mate".

The clerk then escalates this small matter to the boss, who panics 'cos this is all rather unusual: such a serious matter clearly requires further escalation.

Seven tiers of management escalation later, the bit of paper arrives at Marcel Ospel's desk... unfortunately, he's on an aeroplane. Ah well, better shove it in his in-tray until he gets back.

And so the Swiss national carrier's slid into history.

SUMMARY

The Swissair brand is worth two and a half New Pence right now.

The Swiss man on the street wants Marcel Ospel beheaded in the Needlepark. (Why not Lukas Mühlemann while they're at it?)

The Swiss government are threatening both UBS and Credit Suisse with a full books open 'audit' on everything to do with the Swissair fiasco, past, present and future. (Good).

The new Crossair shares doubled in price on the market today, therefore both UBS and Credit Suisse have just made a bit of a killing. How nice for them.

The Swiss banking industry is in a much bigger doghouse with their government now, than they ever were for stashing tonnes of Nazi loot in their coffers.

Mario Corti is looking to be a bit of a sweetie, seeing as he's put his life and soul into rescuing this bollocks situation of someone else's making.

That 'someone else' includes Lukas Mühlemann, but we can now toss Marcel Ospel onto the bonfire.

What a f**k up.

TW

p.s. Marcel Ospel was flying to the US in his corporate jet. You didn't think he'd risk his schedule by flying with an insolvent airline, did you?
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Old 3rd Oct 2001, 17:54
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Allthenlines
Not certain whether FL 146 aircraft will be part of new SR plans, but I believe FL were operating a substantial number of sectors before this in Europe for SR.

Considering A310, A320, DC9 types have been used over the years by SR, this is a major downsize on this MAN route, hope things will return to normal.
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