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AAIB recommend flight deck image recording - the future?

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AAIB recommend flight deck image recording - the future?

Old 14th Feb 2008, 14:32
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AAIB recommend flight deck image recording - the future?

The AAIB published a report today in which they recommend ICAO take on flight deck image recording:

Safety Recommendation 2007-070

The International Civil Aviation Organisation should expedite the introduction of a standard for flight deck image recording, and should encourage member states to provide legal protection, similar to that for cockpit voice recordings, for such image recordings.
Has this already been studied by any airline and if so what were the positives and negatives? Does anyone know of the technology already in use?

Last edited by Julian Hensey; 14th Feb 2008 at 14:47. Reason: title change
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 16:24
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You might care to look at the thread on Criminalisation of Accidents post #57

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Old 14th Feb 2008, 18:41
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Must first admit to being off the hook now (did my 35 years), but my instant rection is that it is more likely to work in a pilot's favour than the reverse.

Also, it would be a very useful tool for the investigation for at least two reasons:
1) The investigators could get a better picture of what the crew saw and did;
2) It would be a terrific trigger for the pilots' memories.

I'll never forget going to Farnborough to hear the CVR tape of one of my flights. Suddenly, I was back in the cockpit again, remembering things leading up to the scenario that I had completely forgotten due to the big-ish event that followed them. A video would be an even better memory-jogger.
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 20:28
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Non-pilot speaking.
It will happen, it is only a matter of time.

Irrespective of what arguments are put forward from FD crew, the politicians will want to do something. ALSO, those that are not familiar with the whole process will not understand why it is rejected by so many. They will say, "If you have nothing to hide etc."

As when the CVR became standard, so will this.
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Old 14th Feb 2008, 20:34
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If a bus driver can be prosecuted for a criminal act of negligence whilst driving his bus, in a manner that could endanger life - then why not for pilots.

There's an interesting discussion with arguments both ways in this thread --


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Old 16th Feb 2008, 11:04
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This subject came up for discussion around 20 years ago and died a death after prolonged campaigning by pilots. I suspect that, if pilots are to be prosecuted after accidents, that this idea will be objected to most strongly. The admissibility of video evidence would give pilots no place to hide, not that I am advocating they should be allowed to.
I am all for the idea.
I foresee that captains will be seen wearing their Breitlings on their right wrist, paid to advertise on the in-cabin screen, baseball caps worn backwards showing the logo, conversation laced with references to cars, bars and restaurants.
It's called 'alternative revenue streaming' and we should all embrace it immediately. It is similar to fuel surcharges in a way! It could even be fed to the Internet, live, for all to see the inevitable impacts with mountains, undershoots and trees.
It's probably a safer way of ensuring your pension stays healthy than leaving it in the hands of Darling Brown (Robbers Inc)
A bit of drift on there, sorry.
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Old 16th Feb 2008, 11:24
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If a bus driver can be prosecuted for a criminal act of negligence whilst driving his bus, in a manner that could endanger life - then why not for pilots.
I don't know of any place where a pilot cannot be "prosecuted for a criminal act of negligence." OTOH, there are very few times where a pilot's [in]action actually meets the legal standard for "criminal negligence," regardless of what some money-hungry lawyer or newshound may think.

Also, it is clear from past acts that the "protections" on the current voice recordings/transcripts are totally insufficient, so I cannot support use of video recordings until ALL countries into which I fly will offer REAL protections against the improper use of both current and future technology/information. If the AAIB and other countries' analogs REALLY believe voice and video recordings are useful for mishap investigation, then is is a VERY simple matter for each one of those countries to absolutely restrict their use to AAIB proceedings ONLY.
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Old 16th Feb 2008, 11:31
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Not obvious,recorders could be sealed and AUTOMATICALLY erased upon parking brakes application,so no way to fiddle around.
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Old 17th Feb 2008, 22:06
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new conspiracy theory........."dey are already filming, but just haven,t told us yet"
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Old 17th Feb 2008, 22:31
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This subject has been before the BALPA tech committee for at least 20 years, and for many reasons rejected usually at least that worldwide standards were not (and probably never will be) uniform.

The technical grounds for having video recordings are sound and have been for many years. It is only a matter of time before they are standard equipment.
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 00:32
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Bad news... Then the hosties wont be so open about taking their tops off in flight.. Still got that french cockpit video in mind...
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 11:35
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Some months ago there was a link to the CVR of the poor Swissair crew that went in off Halifax. I couldn't bear the thought of listening to their final moments but I'll bet plenty could. The CVR is supposed to be confidential isn't it? If material such as this can get out do you suppose they'll be able to keep video out of the hands of the TV production companies desperate to provide fodder for the populist channels. Hell, we could even have watched the 911 terrorists at work with their boxcutters. There's always someone somewhere willing to take a copy and leak it for whatever reason. Next thing you know it's on YouTube.

For this reason alone I will argue against cockpit video.
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 11:50
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Isn't there a bloody great camera in the A380 cockpit? Is this for a flight deck video recorder or just to keep the punters happy? (or is this a test aircraft fit?)


As for the idea, I'm all for it if you could guarantee it would stay confidential and only be used for the investigation of incidents and accidents by the appropriate authority. However having seen how QAR and FDM data is used in some companies I doubt this would ever be the case.
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 11:55
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Bernoulli is absolutely right.

We can not rely on the world's aviation athorities to abide by the protocols which would preclude improper release of this data.

To think that one's family and friend's should become aware that such material could be released into the public domain is utterly abominable.

The release of Swissair's CVR is not something I was aware of, the very thought sickens me. If I recall correctly, the FAA made available the transcripts of the Egyptair 767 tragedy. Was it them who released the Swissair tape?

Not only should it never have happened, it happened with indecent haste.

A pox on this plan: worthy of a global protest from all professional pilots.

There is plenty of data available post-accident as it is, and in any case, pro-active safety management via QAR access and a proper system for using that data is a far better way to improve flight safety.

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Old 18th Feb 2008, 12:22
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I do not, and will never, agree to this.

recent events in the UK have shown us that government bodies have utter contempt for the protection of private data (HMRC, NHS etc etc) and this is data which is already protected by law and can result in criminal prosecution, and yet it still gets 'leaked'

There is no question, these images WILL appear on youtube. God forbid should the worst ever happen to me, I have no desire to work in an environment that means my wife and kids can see my last moments in gloriouss fuzzy-colour on youtube with a bunch of f****wits making comments about it.

besides, disabling a cockpit video recorder would merely require the strategic placement of a manual, or chart
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Old 18th Feb 2008, 12:47
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On a positive note, many TV stars are able to offset the cost of their hair cuts, cosmetic surgery etc against tax and the camera will give you somewhere to hang your cap
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