BA Pilots to ballot for strike over OpenSkies
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Northen Boy
Can you please answer me this.
You are close to gaining a command in Virgin. Virgin was until recently aiming to setup a 787 EU - US operation and it was presumed that it would be VS mainline pilots flying those aircraft and therefore expanding your career opportunities.
Despite VS putting those plans on hold - what would your opinion have been if the Bearded wonder had not given you guys any opportunity to fly the operation - just as VS at London is stagnating?
On the other main point - all of the other posters have explained far more eloquently than me the point about average terms and conditions and needing to maintain the best conditions possible.
BAs plan is not about commands/money/EU-US, it is simply about creating an offshoot, that will with time, eat away at its parent. Its that simple.
Can you please answer me this.
You are close to gaining a command in Virgin. Virgin was until recently aiming to setup a 787 EU - US operation and it was presumed that it would be VS mainline pilots flying those aircraft and therefore expanding your career opportunities.
Despite VS putting those plans on hold - what would your opinion have been if the Bearded wonder had not given you guys any opportunity to fly the operation - just as VS at London is stagnating?
On the other main point - all of the other posters have explained far more eloquently than me the point about average terms and conditions and needing to maintain the best conditions possible.
BAs plan is not about commands/money/EU-US, it is simply about creating an offshoot, that will with time, eat away at its parent. Its that simple.
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The very simple truth is....BA management will do what they want with what they have. pilots balloting about possible strikes, or not.
BALPA has no backbone, plain and simple.
It will thus never change, except to slide further downhill.
Get over it.
BALPA has no backbone, plain and simple.
It will thus never change, except to slide further downhill.
Get over it.
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I was wondering when the voice of Alzheimers would pop up. Shouldn't you be over on the 777 thread chirping about how another Brit jet has landed at Heathrow with no fuel? Good to see you're playing the B side of your cracked record today.
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It wouldnt be 411A again with his big mouth and over arrogance.....
Mate, get a life.
We dont need you in aviation.
We will stand up for our own T&C's if we see fit. This time there will be a ballot for strike and it 'might' get messy.
For reasons so eloquently put by my fellow pilots a) in BA and b) outside of it.
The writing is on the wall and our destiny is still in our hands.
We'll do something about it.
Mate, get a life.
We dont need you in aviation.
We will stand up for our own T&C's if we see fit. This time there will be a ballot for strike and it 'might' get messy.
For reasons so eloquently put by my fellow pilots a) in BA and b) outside of it.
The writing is on the wall and our destiny is still in our hands.
We'll do something about it.
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BALPA are (for once) quite forthright. They have negotiated as much as poss, but BA is not budging - hence the last resort of ballot.
It's all of our industry T's and C's in the balance if you look at the BIG PICTURE.
And don't resort to the usual Nigel bashing.... I might get upset
Stand by for little or no holding into LHR when it all goes quiet.
It's all of our industry T's and C's in the balance if you look at the BIG PICTURE.
And don't resort to the usual Nigel bashing.... I might get upset
Stand by for little or no holding into LHR when it all goes quiet.
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SAS management are cooking up the same plot here.
Experiments to the tune of O/S underway at both short haul and longhaul level.
I sincerly wish BA/BALPA success in giving WW the stick. It will certainly help the rest us to be able to point to discouraging precedent as seen from the management side.
Best of luck.
brgds Kingsnake, 340 driver.
Experiments to the tune of O/S underway at both short haul and longhaul level.
I sincerly wish BA/BALPA success in giving WW the stick. It will certainly help the rest us to be able to point to discouraging precedent as seen from the management side.
Best of luck.
brgds Kingsnake, 340 driver.
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M.Mouse
"However, in your world perhaps you are free to move elsewhere if you do not like the crass way in which your company is being managed. Regrettably I am not because oif the way the aviation world functions. My future is inextricably tied to BA"
Why is that? Is it because of seniority? Which you will fight tooth and nail to protect?
"However, in your world perhaps you are free to move elsewhere if you do not like the crass way in which your company is being managed. Regrettably I am not because oif the way the aviation world functions. My future is inextricably tied to BA"
Why is that? Is it because of seniority? Which you will fight tooth and nail to protect?
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411
This is, and has been, very true for years now. Certainly in ezy. We have had these very same issues now for a couple of years or so... But we are told that we are "Unable to take industrial" action for issues relating to a "separate company". Is this not the same problem here?
To the defense of our CC in easy I have to add though that we have waaaay to many people who "Keep their powder dry for the "REAL" battles"
and therefore giving our CC not enough leverage when negotiating... It a little bit strange though, one would think that if 65-70% (??) of the pilots walked out there would be very little flying done after a day or two..?
So although I agree with 411 on this one I salute the BACC and its pilots for fighting for our, thats right, OUR, not only BA's, T&Cs!
Good luck to all of you!
/CP
The very simple truth is....BA management will do what they want with what they have. pilots balloting about possible strikes, or not.
BALPA has no backbone, plain and simple.
It will thus never change, except to slide further downhill.
Get over it.
BALPA has no backbone, plain and simple.
It will thus never change, except to slide further downhill.
Get over it.
To the defense of our CC in easy I have to add though that we have waaaay to many people who "Keep their powder dry for the "REAL" battles"
and therefore giving our CC not enough leverage when negotiating... It a little bit strange though, one would think that if 65-70% (??) of the pilots walked out there would be very little flying done after a day or two..? So although I agree with 411 on this one I salute the BACC and its pilots for fighting for our, thats right, OUR, not only BA's, T&Cs!
Good luck to all of you!
/CP
Controversial, moi?
Is it because of seniority? Which you will fight tooth and nail to protect?
SHow me a fairer system and one that allows me to move anywhere I wish at a similar level (much like the real world people like to refer to) and I will vote for it.
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Sealion - you're absolutely right that our competitors are setting up OS equivalents in Europe - funny thing is they're using their own mainline pilots to do it. Plus ca meme....
There seems to be a presumption that Open Skies will be successful, BA's woeful track record to date includes: TAT, Air Liberte, Brymon, City Flyer, GO (sold below market rate), DBA (sold for one Euro), Air Russia (never got off the ground), Airlines of Great Britain Group, the BA Manchester operation closed, the BA Birmingham operation closed. Gatwick services still running but at a loss. The management jockers in BA could not run a p**s up in a brewery!
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But we are told that we are "Unable to take industrial" action for issues relating to a "separate company". Is this not the same problem here?
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correct. to make it fit for the 21st century with de-regulation of airspace etc.
one thing the company doesn't want to budge on. funny ey!
thanks for the support. if we lose, you Will get affected.
one thing the company doesn't want to budge on. funny ey!
thanks for the support. if we lose, you Will get affected.
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Past mistakes
Stepping back and looking at the bigger picture - why is Willie Walsh / BA management moving forward with this project? – Not deliberately as a means to aggravate pilots it’s because the regulators have moved the goal posts i.e. openskies and future market demand will arise and carriers will exist to fulfill it.
A new entrant player will have no historical baggage to allow for growth and change of plans, BA’s management is trying to create the same, because it’s in a competitive market and will need the same flexibility if it intends to succeed.
Nearly everybody in all sectors has suffered erosion of terms and conditions, mostly as a result of changes in market conditions, those businesses that fail to move on usually fall by the wayside, or get taken over. Also tell me what other profession has a seniority system that protects jobs ? most of us are exposed to a system where anybody with the applicable qualifications and experience can apply and secure the position available, rather than because they have been with the company for X years.
By all means strike – I don’t think it will get to that, as it’s not safety related you will have nil public support, you will just further alienate the traveling public who have little or no brand loyalty these days anyway.
Yes if it’s a success you doubtless will end up cannibalizing some of your existing customer base, is it not better that these customers still provide revenue to BA?
My only hope is that BA do not end up repeating what happened at GO, where they failed to capitalize on the emerging low cost sector by calling it a day to early in the game and handing useful assets over to a competitor.
A new entrant player will have no historical baggage to allow for growth and change of plans, BA’s management is trying to create the same, because it’s in a competitive market and will need the same flexibility if it intends to succeed.
Nearly everybody in all sectors has suffered erosion of terms and conditions, mostly as a result of changes in market conditions, those businesses that fail to move on usually fall by the wayside, or get taken over. Also tell me what other profession has a seniority system that protects jobs ? most of us are exposed to a system where anybody with the applicable qualifications and experience can apply and secure the position available, rather than because they have been with the company for X years.
By all means strike – I don’t think it will get to that, as it’s not safety related you will have nil public support, you will just further alienate the traveling public who have little or no brand loyalty these days anyway.
Yes if it’s a success you doubtless will end up cannibalizing some of your existing customer base, is it not better that these customers still provide revenue to BA?
My only hope is that BA do not end up repeating what happened at GO, where they failed to capitalize on the emerging low cost sector by calling it a day to early in the game and handing useful assets over to a competitor.
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If BA pilots decide to walk the picket line, it will certainly mean that other airlines in Europe will capitalise on this disruption, and the result will be that BA will lose market share, quite likely, permanently.
Does anyone really care?
Certainly not most passengers, they will simply fly on some other carrier.
And, perhaps liking the service better on that other carrier, not return to BA.
It will serve BA, their weasil-like CEO, and the malcontents on the FD right... most of these folks will continue to find out the hard way that grand airlines are no more...and will never return.
Ever.
Does anyone really care?
Certainly not most passengers, they will simply fly on some other carrier.
And, perhaps liking the service better on that other carrier, not return to BA.
It will serve BA, their weasil-like CEO, and the malcontents on the FD right... most of these folks will continue to find out the hard way that grand airlines are no more...and will never return.
Ever.
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you are such a loser!411 or whatever ur name is!....having joined in 2000 you have posted more than 2 messages every single day......
obviously u dont do much else in yor miserable life.
BA PLANE = BA PILOT
STRIKE!
obviously u dont do much else in yor miserable life.
BA PLANE = BA PILOT
STRIKE!
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Colossus
(1) Seniority does not protect jobs as such. If x jobs need cutting, then x jobs will be cut. What seniority does in this case is determine which jobs will be cut. It means that brown-nosing the boss in the office doesn't help.
(2) Remember also, that BA (amongst others) proclaim to recruit Captains into the airline - ie people who show all the attributes of future captains, rather than career co-pilots. Seniority is a tried and tested mechanism in this industry of allocating command opportunities (note: not a right of passage, but an opportunity to demonstrate your worth and ability to hold such a position of responsibility).
(3) I really don't think that we care whether or not the public give us their support. In reality, we fully expect the old cliches of Surrey based, £200K pa, wife and 3 kids at private school, country mansion with a paddock and ponies, Merc and Range Rover and horse box on the drive to be rolled out by the Daily Mail. We stand on our own two feet (x 3000) and will try to make a stand for the honest workers in the country against the lying, thieving arrogant
that run industry and politics in this country.
(1) Also tell me what other profession has a seniority system that protects jobs ?
(2) most of us are exposed to a system where anybody with the applicable qualifications and experience can apply and secure the position available, rather than because they have been with the company for X years.
(3) By all means strike – I don’t think it will get to that, as it’s not safety related you will have nil public support.
(2) most of us are exposed to a system where anybody with the applicable qualifications and experience can apply and secure the position available, rather than because they have been with the company for X years.
(3) By all means strike – I don’t think it will get to that, as it’s not safety related you will have nil public support.
(1) Seniority does not protect jobs as such. If x jobs need cutting, then x jobs will be cut. What seniority does in this case is determine which jobs will be cut. It means that brown-nosing the boss in the office doesn't help.
(2) Remember also, that BA (amongst others) proclaim to recruit Captains into the airline - ie people who show all the attributes of future captains, rather than career co-pilots. Seniority is a tried and tested mechanism in this industry of allocating command opportunities (note: not a right of passage, but an opportunity to demonstrate your worth and ability to hold such a position of responsibility).
(3) I really don't think that we care whether or not the public give us their support. In reality, we fully expect the old cliches of Surrey based, £200K pa, wife and 3 kids at private school, country mansion with a paddock and ponies, Merc and Range Rover and horse box on the drive to be rolled out by the Daily Mail. We stand on our own two feet (x 3000) and will try to make a stand for the honest workers in the country against the lying, thieving arrogant
that run industry and politics in this country.