BA Pilots to ballot for strike over OpenSkies

[M.Mouse]

The OS pilots' greater longterm benefit will be found within the BA mainline pilots' community, not outside it - if they remain outside it, all of us can kiss our respective T&Cs goodbye longterm!

I am sorry that is what I thought I said but in a different manner.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

A BA strike would simply be a reminder of their most famous advertising slogan ...

We never remember you have a choice

Oh well, just to be on the safe side, better book my next trip with someone else then.

[Hand Solo]

I get it! That was like a joke, just without the humour!

[sidtheesexist]

Gertrude - I appreciate that BA has not got a very good record over worker unrest/IA in recent years. However, the pilot workforce are not want to down tools at the drop of a hat (unlike some of our colleagues) - please bear that in mind and not tar us with the same brush...........

[Gertrude the Wombat]

No, perfectly serious. I've got a trip to make in a couple of weeks' time, and I don't want it to be cancelled due to a strike, so tomorrow morning I'm going to check which airline it's with and if it's BA I'm going to change it.

If I go on strike I expect to lose customers first and my job in the end. It's the same for everybody.

[Hand Solo]

You clearly have a hard employer who can dismiss the workforce then rapidly replace them, coupled with deep pockets that will permit said employer to outlast you. BA don't share that comfortable position.

FWIW I'm not booking my holidays on BA either, seems a perfectly sensible move.

[Terminal 5]

As well as thinking about the possible threat from inside, ie Openskies, BALPA should also be thinking about the threat from outside that will do more damage to BA terms and conditions than BA ever will!!
The threat comes from Airlines like Lufthansa in Europe and Emirates and other middle east carriers with pots of cash. Wait until they start doing more routes from Europe and as they have already started doing they are bypassing Europe on USA - Asia / Mid East flights so that will eat in to european airlines revenue.

Look at what Ryanair and Easyjet have done to the European market.

If BA don't do this someone else will.

[Hand Solo]

BALPA are very happy for BA to fly routes from Europe. All they ask is that the pilots are on BA's master seniority list.

[LIMA OR ALPHA JUNK]

Good luck you guys at BA. What WW is upto is a clear attempt at dividing and conquering whilst opening up Pandora's box for future terms and conditions in the industry.

Let this one through and we will all be staring at Ryanair conditions in years to come.

[Gertrude the Wombat]

You clearly have a hard employer who can dismiss the workforce then rapidly replace them, coupled with deep pockets that will permit said employer to outlast you.

No, I know that if I go on strike my employer's customers will go elsewhere and my employer will go bust, thus losing me my job.

[Hand Solo]

Your employer only goes bust if they want to. Fortunately in large companies CEOs have a responsiblity to their shareholders and are generally not permitted to tough out industrial action by staff all the way to bankruptcy so eventually a compromise postion is reached, as it will inevitably be in this case. So thanks for the prophecies of doom but we've heard them all before. Nobody is going into this with their eyes closed.

[dannyboy72]

Thomas Cook / My Travel to manage 'Project Lauren' for BA

I heard from a close friend who works for Thomas Cook/MY Travel in Manchester, that they had been approached to manage Open Skies as far as engineering, maintenance, rostering and general management are concerned.

Although I am still waiting for information with regards to crewing, and all this does sound quite bizarre, please note that around 30 BA managers met recently at the Thomas Cook/My Travel engineering hangar last week!

If I hear anything further with regards to the above and Flight crewing etc, I will post the info for you.

[Flightrider]

Correct - Thomas Cook will be Ops, Crewing, Rostering, Maintrol and a few other functions for Open Skies. I understand that the operation is likely to sit on the Thomas Cook AOC to enable them to get ETOPS from day one.

[M.Mouse]

Gertrude, you are wise to book elsewhere, I would in your position and I am sorry to see you do that but view it as inevitable. However, in your world perhaps you are free to move elsewhere if you do not like the crass way in which your company is being managed. Regrettably I am not because oif the way the aviation world functions. My future is inextricably tied to BA. So should I just sit back and see a deliberate attempt to screw me and my colleagues by a transient management only interested in feathering their own nests as quickly as possible? E.g. Robert Ayling.

Frankly if BA goes bust and disappears, which I doubt, we will have saved Mr. Walsh a great deal of effort. The younger guys have far, far more to lose by not defending themselves than I have but I will support them every inch of the way. And I take no pride in saying that.

[giorgiorossi]

Should you try working for a different employer

I do not work for the airline industry and I find quite puzzling most of the comments and the demands of airline staff. True, pilots have not gone on strike for a while, and often is other parts of BA who have caused disruptions. Nonetheless - reading these posts - I can not help but be amazed at the presumption and demands that employees of BA or other transport industry companies make to their employers.

Outside the transport industry pension plans are significantly changed without notice, unpaid overtime a standard practice under the pressure of completing tasks, benefits (such as free flights) unheard of and more importantly 1 month notice and pretty much no protection against redundancy. And yes - when redundancy comes you are lucky to get an additional week per year of service.

Perhaps if you tried working in other industry you would appreciate your job more, and realize how lucky you are...

[windytoo]

Firstly I am current F/D on a UK airline. Secondly I am a member of BALPA. I have been following this thread since it started and I can certainly understand your (i.e. BA mainline crews) opposition to WW's ideas about starting this "new" airline , in your position I would probably vote yes for strike action as well. However, several comments made by BA people on this thread have really not helped your cause. Any reference about the quality of other companies pilots compared to BA is incredibly arrogant and fundamentally wrong. There are good and poor pilots in every company and as we all hold the same licence with the same qualifications, theoretically we are all equal. My personal view is that putting a bigjet into a small Greek island in the middle of the night with no Nav aids,is infinitely more demanding than flying "needles" into any big airfield, in any sized aircraft. Also,banging on about destroying other companies T & Cs if yours degrade, is unfortunately complete tosh. The days of people looking up to BA (especially CEOs and accountants of other airlines) are long gone and you are fooling yourself if you think otherwise. All other airlines cut to compete with the "lowcosts" , not try to raise services/costs to compete with BA. Nobody likes it, especially me, but unfortunately that's life.BA mainline crews may be about to be forced out of the 1930s to join everybody else in the 21st century. Murdoch broke Fleet Street ,WW may have a similar brief for BA. Best of luck if you strike ,but if you want the support of all BALPA members in the UK don't let a few of your members talk out of their a**e and p**s the rest of us off.

[Hand Solo]

Windytoo - I think the Virgin crews would be surprised to hear that all other airlines cut costs to compete with the lo-cos. I seem to remember them getting a rather large payrise, helped in no small part by benchmarking themselves against BA. Your outlook on the future of your career seems particularly bleak if you believe you are powerless to resist cost cutting and hence slashing of your T&Cs. We prefer to influence our futures.

On the subject of us all being theoretically equal, well yes we are. In reality we know thats not the case or we'd all get the same results in our sim checks. The reality is there's a big spread, good and bad. BA have said their selection criteria will be different for Lauren to mainline. Different technical ability, different psychological make up, different numerical ability. Does that sound to you like they are expecting to hire the good guys?

[StudentInDebt]

Windytoo, having just joined BA from a UK charter airline where I often had the chance to fly a visual approach to a Greek island in the middle of the night could I point out that it is BA and not the BACC who have decided that Openskies pilots are not the same as BA pilots, indeed under the current proposals if an Openskies pilot wishes to join BA they must go through the same selection process as a candidate from any another airline. If the BACC's proposal was accepted Openskies pilots would be able to bid for another fleet with no restrictions.

If you think that BA T&Cs are rooted in the 1930s then you are delusional. When I worked for a charter airline that flew to Greek Islands (and much longer sectors) I worked less overall for more-or-less the same money. Incidentally the company I used to work for used BA amongst others as a benchmark for the last pay deal I voted for which increased salaries for some by as much as 10-15% so from my experience it is your assertion that is "complete tosh"

[exeng]

Windytoo

I'll quote from you:

My personal view is that putting a bigjet into a small Greek island in the middle of the night with no Nav aids,is infinitely more demanding than flying "needles" into any big airfield, in any sized aircraft.

I've flown for BA and I've flown in charter. Don't kid yourself that BA Pilots are not able to do the sort of flying you do - they do it, and generally very well. I could list airfield after airfield, but what is the point. By the way, the quite difficult small Greek island airfields I operate to are daylight only - maybe our Pilots don't eat enough carrots!

Another quote from you:

Best of luck if you strike ,but if you want the support of all BALPA members in the UK don't let a few of your members talk out of their a**e and p**s the rest of us off.

I'm not quite sure I understand, apart from a**e and p**s. I would imagine that BA Pilots intend to go on strike all by themselves - I wouldn't have thought they would be looking for your immediate support.

Nevertheless as a charter Capt I support them all the way. Maintain the pay and conditions at the top and we may continue to enjoy a percentage thereof. Destroy the pay and conditions at the top and........

Another quote from you:

theoretically we are all equal

Quite right. My own experience is that the best in charter is as good as the best in BA; however the worst might be significantly below the standard that BA would employ. The average (in my opinion) is probably just below that enjoyed by BA - and I could be wrong of course (partly because I haven't flown with all the charter pilots in the UK).

I wish you all the best.


Regards
Exeng

[bastrike]

BA Strike Info

BA want to employ 250 pilots on very poor terms and conditions in their new Openskies airline.

Those 250 Pilots could join BA on the full BA terms and conditions if this position taken by BA is defeated.

Please visit BA Strike Blog to leave anonomous or not comments and add your vote to the vote as well.

If you run a website, please link to this blog to get it as high up the google rankings as possible.

If you use social networking sites, please tell everyone about this blog. Facebook, myspace, Digg etc all need to know.

Would a PPRune administrator consider making this thread a sticky please!