BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
Join Date: Dec 2000
Location: Horsham, England, UK. ---o--O--o---
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WatcherZero
Thanks for that so-called update.
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You don't work for the AAIB then I take it...
So it was coming in on Auto and deployed it's Roger Ramjet and sucked up the earth - I got confused right after Auto!
Jeez that was funny
Thanks for that so-called update.
.You don't work for the AAIB then I take it...
So it was coming in on Auto and deployed it's Roger Ramjet and sucked up the earth - I got confused right after Auto!
Jeez that was funny
Join Date: Jan 2006
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Today, 13:20 #729 Seggy Instead of being 'just another number' I could order a Personal Title and help support PPRuNe
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: New York, NY
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It is going to be interesting to see the FINAL accident investigation report. There is going to be a lot of 'politicing' going on behind the scenes with this one.
Great job to the flight and cabin crew.
Last edited by Seggy : Today at 13:35. Reason: typo
Well, I find it interesting that you comment about the 'behind the scenes politicing' that will go on and then contribute to what can cause it... by praising people before the facts are known.
If the facts don't support the public praise it certainly puts the investigators in a tough spot, doesn't it?U.S lead safety investigator - "we have to be careful how we handle this. The press has made a hero out of this guy." This after finding some unexplainable behavior during the investigation. Yes, they're aware of public sentiments and pressure.
The comments about 'speed reduced'(AAIB), 'stickshaker'(London Times), and 'dropped in from 10 feet'(pprune post allegedly quoting news report), could be spun to make a complete different story. Until the facts are released I think we should wait before we start cheering or pointing fingers.
None of us know what really happened. The investigators aren't talking. Give it time....
Join Date: Jan 2007
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From the AIP: 27L PAPI 420M in from THR, MEHT 65ft.
So, the PAPI (roughly in the middle of the touchdown zone, TDZ), is inset 420 metres from the painted threshold (not necessarily the end of the tarmac). The glidepath will "aim" at the same point, being calibrated to achieve this.
So, the PAPI (roughly in the middle of the touchdown zone, TDZ), is inset 420 metres from the painted threshold (not necessarily the end of the tarmac). The glidepath will "aim" at the same point, being calibrated to achieve this.
The PACT lists the threshold altitude as 56 ft from the runway surface (as opposed to 65 ft for PAPI).
56 / tan(3º) = 1068,5 ft = 325,7 m
Also see the AC and the Google Maps picture. The PAPI line (the western white north-south oriented line drawn on the southern edge of the runway) is about 100 m from the eastern line which marks the position of the ILS GP antenna and aimpoint in relation to the runway). The PAPI line mark is at the start of the visual aiming point markings on the junction with taxiway Victor.
Not that this would make any difference to how much the aircraft fell short, because when flying manually in good weather you would aim more towards the PAPI line and touch down a little bit even after that with a good flare, but just to be really anal about the numbers.
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Watcher Zero, where did this information come from?
You mention "published", but by whom and what was the source?
It is worthless unless the source is credible, and I'd have to suggest that the investigators wouldn't be releasing bits and pieces at this stage.
You mention "published", but by whom and what was the source?
It is worthless unless the source is credible, and I'd have to suggest that the investigators wouldn't be releasing bits and pieces at this stage.
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Fuel Icing Inhibitor Uplift
It's likely that this paragraph from Belgique's linked article (post 940) will be the operative issue:
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"Overall, it's shades of the previous GE90 "rollback" and IFSD's (inflight shutdowns) from earlier days. The only difference was in those cases, it was in cruise and was caused by moisture freezing in the P3B and PS3 lines to the FADEC, and it was resolved by increasing the tubing diameters."
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Methinks that frozen fuel pressure reference lines identically influencing each FADEC's outputs would stand the best chance of uniformly affecting both engines (for identical reasons - and perhaps related to Beijing's fuel quality and the amount of FSII icing inhibitor included in the fuel uplift being inadequate).
Those reference line thickness parameters are unlikely to differ overmuch between engine types.
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"Overall, it's shades of the previous GE90 "rollback" and IFSD's (inflight shutdowns) from earlier days. The only difference was in those cases, it was in cruise and was caused by moisture freezing in the P3B and PS3 lines to the FADEC, and it was resolved by increasing the tubing diameters."
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Methinks that frozen fuel pressure reference lines identically influencing each FADEC's outputs would stand the best chance of uniformly affecting both engines (for identical reasons - and perhaps related to Beijing's fuel quality and the amount of FSII icing inhibitor included in the fuel uplift being inadequate).
Those reference line thickness parameters are unlikely to differ overmuch between engine types.
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http://www.aaib.dft.gov.uk/latest_ne...ial_report.cfm
Funny that the AAIB have a press conference that gives details that confict with their official report. If they made a press release, a transcript would be available.
Funny that the AAIB have a press conference that gives details that confict with their official report. If they made a press release, a transcript would be available.
The Reverend
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Shore Guy,
ZBAA is the second busiest airport in Asia with some 1,100 movements/day. The fuel is international standard A1. I think you can forget the contamination theory. A lot of aircraft would have fallen out of the sky on January 17th, if that was the case.
ZBAA is the second busiest airport in Asia with some 1,100 movements/day. The fuel is international standard A1. I think you can forget the contamination theory. A lot of aircraft would have fallen out of the sky on January 17th, if that was the case.
Location, Location, Location
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None of us know what really happened. The investigators aren't talking. Give it time....
aka Capt PPRuNe
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Thread closed to due to unwieldy nature of such a large amount of amateur hypothesising interspread with some real knowledgeable nuggets.
Initial report out and new thread started. Hopefully we'll be able to keep the pretenders and dipsticks more at bay on that one.
Initial report out and new thread started. Hopefully we'll be able to keep the pretenders and dipsticks more at bay on that one.
