BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
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Last time I checked it looked to me that 99% were human error. Has this changed?
Please, do some research before posting, instead of blaming everything on pilot error. We are humans, but we know how to do our job.
If you so much "hate" pilots, and blame them for everything, then what are you doing here?
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Not for a moment taking anything away from the efforts and skill exhibited by the crew, but the real miracle here is that there was no consuming fire. It is the inexplicable lack of fire that allowed all to survive.
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"That would cause me to reveal who I work for."
Ah, stop it will ya? It would not have revealed anything had you not just made that statement! I can't take anymore of this drivel from you. I'm not going to propagate a debate with you by responding further to your inane posts. I'll await the official outcome, and meanwhile think the best of the flight crew and cabin crew who did a fantastic job in awful circumstances.
Ah, stop it will ya? It would not have revealed anything had you not just made that statement! I can't take anymore of this drivel from you. I'm not going to propagate a debate with you by responding further to your inane posts. I'll await the official outcome, and meanwhile think the best of the flight crew and cabin crew who did a fantastic job in awful circumstances.
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Bit off topic (mods, move somewhere better if you like, I guess) but to follow up the causes and pilot error issue.
The NTSB releases various statistical data. Annual Review of Aircraft Accidents 2003 was the first I checked.
On pages 13 and 14 it has a couple of graphs showing various causes, and also a discussion in the text.
Certainly not 99% in that sample.
(Incidentally, "personnel" isn't just pilots; any human error would be counted)
The NTSB releases various statistical data. Annual Review of Aircraft Accidents 2003 was the first I checked.
On pages 13 and 14 it has a couple of graphs showing various causes, and also a discussion in the text.
Within each accident occurrence, any information that helps explain why that event happened is designated as either a “cause” or “factor.” In addition are findings that provide information of interest to the investigation. For most of the 10-year period [1994-2003], personnel were cited as a cause or factor in 70 to 80% of all Part 121 accidents, followed by environment-related causes, and then by aircraft-related causes.
(Incidentally, "personnel" isn't just pilots; any human error would be counted)
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According to http://www.planecrashinfo.com/cause.htm, it was never "99%".
Please, do some research before posting, instead of blaming everything on pilot error. We are humans, but we know how to do our job.
If you so much "hate" pilots, and blame them for everything, then what are you doing here?
Please, do some research before posting, instead of blaming everything on pilot error. We are humans, but we know how to do our job.
If you so much "hate" pilots, and blame them for everything, then what are you doing here?
The 99% was not encompassing all aviation, just a certain sect and to explain what sect I mean would cause me to reveal. Caphece?
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I'll await the official outcome, and meanwhile think the best of the flight crew and cabin crew who did a fantastic job in awful circumstances.
"Caphece?"
NO! And it's spelt CAPICHE.
Go away.
NO! And it's spelt CAPICHE.
Go away.
My other profile was signed up in 2000 and has 1000s of posts.
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Who said I hate pilots? My family's livelyhood is provided by aviation of which there would be none without pilots. I wasn't blaiming them I just stated a statistic. Hopefully you read your training manuals and absorb the information better than you are showing here.
The 99% was not encompassing all aviation, just a certain sect and to explain what sect I mean would cause me to reveal. Caphece?
The 99% was not encompassing all aviation, just a certain sect and to explain what sect I mean would cause me to reveal. Caphece?
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Yes, I "Caphece" (whatever that means, because it deffinatly isn't Italian), that there's no point in trying to discuss any further with you. Keep blaming 99% on human error, enjoy your own lie.
I also did not say that I was for sure on that stat. Just thought I remembered hearing that. I don't book keep stats like that.
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The Unthrustworthy 777
The Air Safety Week Article mentioned by Matblack (page 45 post #895)
.
"The Unthrustworthy 777"
.
is available in its entirety here
It would seem, by inference, to make a TOGA Press a sensible thing to do - once faced with a nil responsive duo of any brand of 777 engine.
.
"The Unthrustworthy 777"
.
is available in its entirety here
It would seem, by inference, to make a TOGA Press a sensible thing to do - once faced with a nil responsive duo of any brand of 777 engine.
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OT: Re Pilots / Crew Only Forum
Hi all...
First of all I'm stunned at the calm professionalism and precise, quick actions of the triple seven crew. A major incident averted and everyone got to go home for tea. The view out of the windows during the last few seconds must have been truly daunting. If we ever bump into each other, it's my round!
Now... This will be my first and last post.
I don't fly. Half an hour at the controls of a Piper Tomahawk, dangling from a paraglider at 50ft (was meant to be practising "ground handling"... whoops!
) and a lifelong interest in aviation does not a pilot make. I just would like to say that as SLF ( Gotta love that phrase) I come here to learn. Just the day to day stuff flight and cabin crew take for granted as another day at the office fascinates me.
But with an incident like this (amongst others to be found in these forums) this is the best place for people who know what they are talking about to discuss what happened and what it means for crew, passengers and the industry as a whole.
I think you should have a "professional only" forum. It would keep the armchair pilots (like me
) from posting all those "I'm not a pilot but...." posts and keep the signal to noise ratio a bit higher than it currently is.
But please let us read it! I don't want to post but would hate to lose the insight and information contained herein. I've spent many a happy hour reading and learning here and would mourn it's loss.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. But well informed passengers who know why they are told to put their seatbelt on and can't open the windows must surely help.
Laz
First of all I'm stunned at the calm professionalism and precise, quick actions of the triple seven crew. A major incident averted and everyone got to go home for tea. The view out of the windows during the last few seconds must have been truly daunting. If we ever bump into each other, it's my round!
Now... This will be my first and last post.
I don't fly. Half an hour at the controls of a Piper Tomahawk, dangling from a paraglider at 50ft (was meant to be practising "ground handling"... whoops!
) and a lifelong interest in aviation does not a pilot make. I just would like to say that as SLF ( Gotta love that phrase) I come here to learn. Just the day to day stuff flight and cabin crew take for granted as another day at the office fascinates me. But with an incident like this (amongst others to be found in these forums) this is the best place for people who know what they are talking about to discuss what happened and what it means for crew, passengers and the industry as a whole.
I think you should have a "professional only" forum. It would keep the armchair pilots (like me
) from posting all those "I'm not a pilot but...." posts and keep the signal to noise ratio a bit higher than it currently is.But please let us read it! I don't want to post but would hate to lose the insight and information contained herein. I've spent many a happy hour reading and learning here and would mourn it's loss.
A little knowledge can be a dangerous thing. But well informed passengers who know why they are told to put their seatbelt on and can't open the windows must surely help.
Laz
Last edited by Lazarus42; 20th Jan 2008 at 03:23.
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The Air Safety Week Article mentioned by Matblack (page 45 post #895)
.
"The Unthrustworthy 777"
.
is available in its entirety here
It would seem, by inference, to make a TOGA Press a sensible thing to do - once faced with a nil responsive duo of any brand of 777 engine.
.
"The Unthrustworthy 777"
.
is available in its entirety here
It would seem, by inference, to make a TOGA Press a sensible thing to do - once faced with a nil responsive duo of any brand of 777 engine.
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Lack of info being discussed on the last few pages in the thread so I thought I would bring you back up-to-date on the latest released info in the UK. To remind you of whats known so far.
*Plane was coming in on auto
*Power was lost in both engines
*Autopilot sent several requests for more engine power to the engines, no response.
*Cockpit warning for engine power shortfall to autopilot failed to sound.
*Pilots took manual control and set maximum throttle, again there was no response from the engines.
*Debris analysis showed that one engine had been working when hitting the ground and one hadnt due to the fact one engine only scooped up dirt while the other sucked it in.
*Both the APU and Ramjet had been deployed
*Plane was coming in on auto
*Power was lost in both engines
*Autopilot sent several requests for more engine power to the engines, no response.
*Cockpit warning for engine power shortfall to autopilot failed to sound.
*Pilots took manual control and set maximum throttle, again there was no response from the engines.
*Debris analysis showed that one engine had been working when hitting the ground and one hadnt due to the fact one engine only scooped up dirt while the other sucked it in.
*Both the APU and Ramjet had been deployed
Last edited by WatcherZero; 20th Jan 2008 at 02:35.
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"I been here way longer than you Mr. Just signed up in January 08
My other profile was signed up in 2000 and has 1000s of posts. "
And your point is?
I haven't spouted "statistics" like:
"Men always prepare for the worst and are pleasently happy when the worst does not happen. Females usually look for the best and are pissed when it does not happen.
or
"Last time I checked it looked to me that 99% were human error"
I may be new to the forum, and certainly my experience of it is limited to this thread, and I must say posts like yours are central to my diminishing evaluation of the content.
If I were to quote statistics, I would make sure of my sources, and quote them where possible, but at least make them based on fact!
"I also did not say that I was for sure on that stat. Just thought I remembered hearing that. I don't book keep stats like that."
If you quote a statistic which you "think you remember hearing" then it IS NOT A STATISTIC!
My other profile was signed up in 2000 and has 1000s of posts. "
And your point is?
I haven't spouted "statistics" like:
"Men always prepare for the worst and are pleasently happy when the worst does not happen. Females usually look for the best and are pissed when it does not happen.
or
"Last time I checked it looked to me that 99% were human error"
I may be new to the forum, and certainly my experience of it is limited to this thread, and I must say posts like yours are central to my diminishing evaluation of the content.
If I were to quote statistics, I would make sure of my sources, and quote them where possible, but at least make them based on fact!
"I also did not say that I was for sure on that stat. Just thought I remembered hearing that. I don't book keep stats like that."
If you quote a statistic which you "think you remember hearing" then it IS NOT A STATISTIC!
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no reports of unusual maintenance activity, the plane in question had had a full overhaul a month earlier. There was a report though im not sure of a 777 taking off from china last year that shortly after takeoff lost all mechanical and eletrical power for 40 seconds or so then it suddenly returned and the flight continued as normal, no cause was found.
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'Ramjet deployed......'
I like it. The warp drive probably didn't kick in though....
'The other engine didn't suck in dirt'......
X-Ray vision at work
99% of all people are caused by accidents.... Now that is more plausible....
Keep going, lads, this is better than TV. Just give me some time to go and get more popcorn, please
I like it. The warp drive probably didn't kick in though....
'The other engine didn't suck in dirt'......
X-Ray vision at work
99% of all people are caused by accidents.... Now that is more plausible....
Keep going, lads, this is better than TV. Just give me some time to go and get more popcorn, please
The Reverend
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Lack of info in this thread so I thought I would bring you up-to-date on the latest released info in the UK.*Autopilot sent several requests for more engine power to the engines, no response.
*Cockpit warning for engine power shortfall to autopilot failed to sound.Debris analysis showed that one engine had been working when hitting the ground and one hadnt due to the fact one engine only scooped up dirt while the other sucked it in. *Both the APU and Ramjet had been deployed.
*Cockpit warning for engine power shortfall to autopilot failed to sound.Debris analysis showed that one engine had been working when hitting the ground and one hadnt due to the fact one engine only scooped up dirt while the other sucked it in. *Both the APU and Ramjet had been deployed.
Dear Jesus, where do these people come from?
