BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
dns, woof, thanks. Re the hole to which you refer dns, I wondered if it was a section of the departing right gear hitting the fuselage as it went by, likely tumbling? Not sure of the final locations of these sections - various photos show the two separated right gear sections fairly near the aircraft but other photos do not show them at all - perhaps it's foreshortened telephoto work, not sure. I wondered too, about the black soot-ish smears on the right fuselage at the wing-root - likely rubber deposits as the tires abraded at initial impact but just a guess, nothing more.
We should know very quickly whether the engines were developing power or not and what the fuel state was. The theme running through witnesses with amateur aviation backgrounds is, they sensed the approach was "abnormal". I've spent enough time on the M4 from the downtown London layover to know where in the sky approaches on the 27s are, so I give these kinds of reports some small credibility if only as indicators. Also, a "tight turn" onto final was reported by one, again credibility notwithstanding. I don't think it is possible to speculate on the meaning of the gear and flaps being in the landing config until we know when and at what altitude they were thus placed. Just not enough known yet.
We should know very quickly whether the engines were developing power or not and what the fuel state was. The theme running through witnesses with amateur aviation backgrounds is, they sensed the approach was "abnormal". I've spent enough time on the M4 from the downtown London layover to know where in the sky approaches on the 27s are, so I give these kinds of reports some small credibility if only as indicators. Also, a "tight turn" onto final was reported by one, again credibility notwithstanding. I don't think it is possible to speculate on the meaning of the gear and flaps being in the landing config until we know when and at what altitude they were thus placed. Just not enough known yet.
Location, Location, Location
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: If it moves, watch it like a hawk: If it doesn't, hit it with a hammer until it does...
Age: 60
Posts: 142
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Okay, can anyone else add to my list?
nah, seriously........
Lucky it was 27L.....
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South East
Age: 42
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
And even luckier that nothing was waiting to cross the threshold of 27L as so often happens on the way to or from T4... Could have changed the situation somewhat...
pj2, I see what you are refering to, didn't notice it before. Marks from the tyres would make sense, judging by the final resting angle of the aircraft, it seems likely that the gear would have been twisted to the right hand side as it sheared off.
pj2, I see what you are refering to, didn't notice it before. Marks from the tyres would make sense, judging by the final resting angle of the aircraft, it seems likely that the gear would have been twisted to the right hand side as it sheared off.
dns - and I see the left gear is driven almost vertically through the wing - (this has been commented upon very nicely during the thread I know), indicating a high vertical rate. One can see dimly through the looking glass as these factors emerge...
Join Date: May 2006
Location: UJ
Age: 41
Posts: 13
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is is good to know that no one has died. And i'm sure all the crew did there best to save everyone.
I would like to know in relation to none of the commands been given from the F/D - don't some A/C's have the ability to have pre-recorded emergency announcments? Could they not have a button in the F/D that would alert CC to shout brace signal whilst the F/D crew prepared to land - obviously I realise that it may be apparent they had very little time to react to what ever situation that was presented to them. But in addition to that - surely crew who would have been flying into there home base would have realised something was wrong just prior to landling. If they've self evacuted could they have not shouted out Brace command?
Pleased everyone is ok at least.
I would like to know in relation to none of the commands been given from the F/D - don't some A/C's have the ability to have pre-recorded emergency announcments? Could they not have a button in the F/D that would alert CC to shout brace signal whilst the F/D crew prepared to land - obviously I realise that it may be apparent they had very little time to react to what ever situation that was presented to them. But in addition to that - surely crew who would have been flying into there home base would have realised something was wrong just prior to landling. If they've self evacuted could they have not shouted out Brace command?
Pleased everyone is ok at least.
Join Date: May 2006
Posts: 399
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What were the WX conditions like at the time...? any possibility of core icing....? I will assume the BA machines use Rollers.
Great news no one seriously injured. Nice job who ever planned the clearways at the rwy ends.....
Great news no one seriously injured. Nice job who ever planned the clearways at the rwy ends.....
Join Date: May 2002
Location: MA
Posts: 300
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Massive birdstrike would likely have dead birds all over the place, and this would have likely been reported by now.
Many years ago, a UA DC8 crashed while on approach to PDX (Portland, OR). There were only a few fatalities as there was no fire. And there was no fire because the plane ran out of fuel.
Premature, but I noticed that there was no apparent fire in this accident despite a plane that sustained some major damage. But if fuel starvation or depletion was a issue in this accident, I would find it unusual to lose both engines virtually simultaneously.
No question this will fascinate the aviation world in the days to come. One of the premier aircraft types belonging to one of the world's premier carriers crashes at one of the busiest airports in the world...
Many years ago, a UA DC8 crashed while on approach to PDX (Portland, OR). There were only a few fatalities as there was no fire. And there was no fire because the plane ran out of fuel.
Premature, but I noticed that there was no apparent fire in this accident despite a plane that sustained some major damage. But if fuel starvation or depletion was a issue in this accident, I would find it unusual to lose both engines virtually simultaneously.
No question this will fascinate the aviation world in the days to come. One of the premier aircraft types belonging to one of the world's premier carriers crashes at one of the busiest airports in the world...
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: Seattle
Age: 63
Posts: 164
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From the US
Big 
to the B/A crew for bringing the a/c down. Both F/D crew and C/C must have been in adrenaline mode and focused on the task as trained. PAX off w/only minor injuries...no catastrophes other that a probable write off of a/c. How many times do we get a chance to survive an incident like this?
As SLF...and because I'm an avid reader of PPRuNe...I'm very aware of the potential for emergency evacuations now and pay attention to my row versus exit doors, etc. I used to be very skeptical of ever living to an emergency evacuation. I'm now convinced otherwise. One nevers knows.
Regardless of the circumstances leading to this crash, the crew did what they were trained to do to avoid casualties. The fact there's no loss of of life is worth congratulating them.
Hats off from a Yank!
C of F
to the B/A crew for bringing the a/c down. Both F/D crew and C/C must have been in adrenaline mode and focused on the task as trained. PAX off w/only minor injuries...no catastrophes other that a probable write off of a/c. How many times do we get a chance to survive an incident like this? As SLF...and because I'm an avid reader of PPRuNe...I'm very aware of the potential for emergency evacuations now and pay attention to my row versus exit doors, etc. I used to be very skeptical of ever living to an emergency evacuation. I'm now convinced otherwise. One nevers knows.
Regardless of the circumstances leading to this crash, the crew did what they were trained to do to avoid casualties. The fact there's no loss of of life is worth congratulating them.
Hats off from a Yank!
C of F
Join Date: Oct 2007
Location: USA
Age: 70
Posts: 8
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
FWIW
Our (USA) union's international pilot union committee guy put this note out earlier:-
"We've been in contact with BALPA throughout the day.
Needless to say, the fact that everyone walked away is a testament to the airplane and the flight crew and to be fair, the cabin crew.
At this point in time all we know is that the airplane suffered DUAL ENGINE FAILURE at 400 feet.
The BA flight crew has spent the day accompanied by two BALPA Reps.
The full BACC was just about to vote on action regarding OpenSkies as this event unfolded. As a result, that vote was delayed to accomodate all their resources to help both this crew and the multiple crews stranded as a result of LHR closing.
As more details emerge I will endeavor to provide such information.
In the meantime can I please ask that we refrain from speculation and send our best collective wishes to this crew."
Our (USA) union's international pilot union committee guy put this note out earlier:-
"We've been in contact with BALPA throughout the day.
Needless to say, the fact that everyone walked away is a testament to the airplane and the flight crew and to be fair, the cabin crew.
At this point in time all we know is that the airplane suffered DUAL ENGINE FAILURE at 400 feet.
The BA flight crew has spent the day accompanied by two BALPA Reps.
The full BACC was just about to vote on action regarding OpenSkies as this event unfolded. As a result, that vote was delayed to accomodate all their resources to help both this crew and the multiple crews stranded as a result of LHR closing.
As more details emerge I will endeavor to provide such information.
In the meantime can I please ask that we refrain from speculation and send our best collective wishes to this crew."
Join Date: Nov 2006
Location: West Yorkshire Zone
Posts: 976
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is is good to know that no one has died. And i'm sure all the crew did there best to save everyone.
I would like to know in relation to none of the commands been given from the F/D - don't some A/C's have the ability to have pre-recorded emergency announcments? Could they not have a button in the F/D that would alert CC to shout brace signal whilst the F/D crew prepared to land - obviously I realise that it may be apparent they had very little time to react to what ever situation that was presented to them. But in addition to that - surely crew who would have been flying into there home base would have realised something was wrong just prior to landling. If they've self evacuted could they have not shouted out Brace command?
Pleased everyone is ok at least.
As we have all said again & again, I think it is 'best' not to 'speculate' or 'simulate' anything until we have more 'factual' information.
Goodnight.
I would like to know in relation to none of the commands been given from the F/D - don't some A/C's have the ability to have pre-recorded emergency announcments? Could they not have a button in the F/D that would alert CC to shout brace signal whilst the F/D crew prepared to land - obviously I realise that it may be apparent they had very little time to react to what ever situation that was presented to them. But in addition to that - surely crew who would have been flying into there home base would have realised something was wrong just prior to landling. If they've self evacuted could they have not shouted out Brace command?
Pleased everyone is ok at least.
As we have all said again & again, I think it is 'best' not to 'speculate' or 'simulate' anything until we have more 'factual' information.
Goodnight.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: South East
Age: 42
Posts: 250
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
foxpresident,
in a planned emergency landing, the flight crew flash the smoking/seat belt signs on and off repeatedly to signal the crew to brace, if they don't have time to make a PA. Presumably if this did not happen today it was because their workload was too high and that what happened was totally unexpected.
in a planned emergency landing, the flight crew flash the smoking/seat belt signs on and off repeatedly to signal the crew to brace, if they don't have time to make a PA. Presumably if this did not happen today it was because their workload was too high and that what happened was totally unexpected.
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
SLAMER What were the WX conditions like at the time...?
EGLL 171320Z 22016KT 9999 BKN014 BKN020 11/09 Q0996 TEMPO 24020G32KT 6000 SHRA BKN015CB
EGLL 171250Z 20013KT 9999 BKN008 10/08 Q0996 BECMG 24018G28KT SCT012 BKN020
EGLL 171220Z 21014KT 180V240 9999 SCT008 BKN010 09/08 Q0997 TEMPO 21018G28KT 4000 RADZ BKN008
EGLL 171150Z 20014KT 170V240 9999 FEW006 SCT010 09/08 Q0997
Join Date: Mar 2007
Location: Edinburgh
Age: 50
Posts: 21
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
As a pax on a waiting craft, I'd just like to say thankyou to the BMI crew, both cockpit and cabin, on BD56 LHR-EDI.
A ditch like that is never going to be "nice" to those in the industry, yet our crew disseminated the right amount of information (ie truthful and frank) and behaved both professionally and impecably.
Top work ladies and gents
A ditch like that is never going to be "nice" to those in the industry, yet our crew disseminated the right amount of information (ie truthful and frank) and behaved both professionally and impecably.
Top work ladies and gents
Join Date: Sep 1999
Posts: 541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Two choices as I see it:
-lady luck was in the driving seat.ie.they did have catstrophic power loss and they did just have enough inertia to clear that fence(highAoA supports this but large bank angles wouldnt) OR
-the pilot was in the driving seat-it was all by design-partial or significant power loss-(birds..surge/stall)-the highAoA to stall it onto the grass is all intentional-bank angle on app may have been height-loss maneuver-let the gear take it and plough to an early stop in the grass.
Of course,the other option is a delayed or "sloppy" response to eng fail on short final(explains bank,explains undershoot).
In fact the only thing anyone can say right now is that the Boeing 777 is an incredibly well-built plane.
-lady luck was in the driving seat.ie.they did have catstrophic power loss and they did just have enough inertia to clear that fence(highAoA supports this but large bank angles wouldnt) OR
-the pilot was in the driving seat-it was all by design-partial or significant power loss-(birds..surge/stall)-the highAoA to stall it onto the grass is all intentional-bank angle on app may have been height-loss maneuver-let the gear take it and plough to an early stop in the grass.
Of course,the other option is a delayed or "sloppy" response to eng fail on short final(explains bank,explains undershoot).
In fact the only thing anyone can say right now is that the Boeing 777 is an incredibly well-built plane.
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: transient
Posts: 31
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Needless to say, the fact that everyone walked away is a testament to the airplane and the flight crew and to be fair, the cabin crew.
Was the "to be fair" part really necessary?
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: Manchester
Posts: 1
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
First post so please be gentle. Just a thought but 777 with GE engines have suffered thrust rollback in the past, is it possible the same thing could've effected a RR engine? I know the reports of rollback were on take off but could it happen to an 777 on finals?
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: edge of reality
Posts: 792
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
To lose both engines at 400ft is not something we're trained for (to my knowledge) announcements to CC would take ZERO priority when dealing with the task in hand... well done to all involved.. this should NEVER have happened to you... sleep well tonight.
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Dublin, Ireland.
Posts: 63
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts