BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
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D O Guerrero
You're talking rubbish!!
Reread Dannys post and you will see that you have misinterpreted his post - The low speed will be as a result of trying to extend the glide(If indeed that is what happened) not the other way round.
It's been a long day, especially for the crew - whatever the cause, it's nice to hear so much praise for a job well done.
You're talking rubbish!!
Reread Dannys post and you will see that you have misinterpreted his post - The low speed will be as a result of trying to extend the glide(If indeed that is what happened) not the other way round.
It's been a long day, especially for the crew - whatever the cause, it's nice to hear so much praise for a job well done.
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Even though no one here knows what really happened its always fun to see all the different opinions.
Only a few here have the same thought that i have had from the beginning that maybe it was a screwed up approach.
1) weather is not BAD
2) Low on fuel?? If so the pilots are gonna be in deep s...t as they never declared min fuel. sooo i wont believe thats the cause.
3) blocked fuel lines or other system failures- seams strange when the 777 is build so fail-safe with as many backup systems as possible.
Total loss of electric power, the essential systems should be powered by the battery. blocked fuel lines.... would in any case only shot down one engine or something real screwed up should have happened that would have blocked or clocked all the separate fuel lines.
4) big flock of birds??? hmmmmmmm thats all i would say for now
But what if they got in on a screwed up approach, might not have been configured correctly or something els which would have made the pilots come in below Ref and close to stall which maybe could lead to the turn that some people have mentioned that they saw the 777 make before landing which the pilots then might have reacted to a little too late......
Anyways just another opinion im prob. way off and no matter what the Pilots did a great job on the final part of the landing making everyone walk away safe......
Only a few here have the same thought that i have had from the beginning that maybe it was a screwed up approach.
1) weather is not BAD
2) Low on fuel?? If so the pilots are gonna be in deep s...t as they never declared min fuel. sooo i wont believe thats the cause.
3) blocked fuel lines or other system failures- seams strange when the 777 is build so fail-safe with as many backup systems as possible.
Total loss of electric power, the essential systems should be powered by the battery. blocked fuel lines.... would in any case only shot down one engine or something real screwed up should have happened that would have blocked or clocked all the separate fuel lines.
4) big flock of birds??? hmmmmmmm thats all i would say for now
But what if they got in on a screwed up approach, might not have been configured correctly or something els which would have made the pilots come in below Ref and close to stall which maybe could lead to the turn that some people have mentioned that they saw the 777 make before landing which the pilots then might have reacted to a little too late......
Anyways just another opinion im prob. way off and no matter what the Pilots did a great job on the final part of the landing making everyone walk away safe......
I REALLY SHOULDN'T BE HERE
I've read all four pages of this thread. The only two important facts which have been established are:
I) There is a BA triple seven in a sorry state on one of LHR's runways.
II) Nobody is dead as a result.
Please let's just wait for the AAIB to do its job.and stop filling PPruNe's boards with tedious speculation.
sr
I) There is a BA triple seven in a sorry state on one of LHR's runways.
II) Nobody is dead as a result.
Please let's just wait for the AAIB to do its job.and stop filling PPruNe's boards with tedious speculation.
sr
EmergingCyclogenesis,
Nice theory except for one small detail. The aircraft was 20 mins early.
Oh, and the (only!) guy who said it was travelling fast has been proven a fraud. One look at the skid marks and how quickly it pulled up shows that this jet didn't have a an excessive amount of forward momentum.
M
Nice theory except for one small detail. The aircraft was 20 mins early.
Oh, and the (only!) guy who said it was travelling fast has been proven a fraud. One look at the skid marks and how quickly it pulled up shows that this jet didn't have a an excessive amount of forward momentum.
M
Last edited by mmmbop; 18th Jan 2008 at 00:03.
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This came through on an Aussie news site....
"An Australian who claimed to be a passenger on board a British Airways flight that crashed at London's Heathrow Airport was a hoaxer, according to the network that originally ran the quotes.
A representative from Sky News in the UK confirmed to ninemsn that the Australian who called himself Jason Johnson was a prankster who decided to have a laugh at the network's expense.
It was amazing we came in very, very fast and once we'd landed we spun 90 degrees," Jason told the network in a phone interview.
"I felt like I was in a washing machine.
"There was this major shift to the side and all of us were slung off to the side of where we were sitting."
After Sky ran a live interview and used grabs in a separate story, Jason e-mailed them to admit the call was a prank.
"He admitted it through e-mail. One of our producers called him up and he said, 'I was a bit pissed and thought it might be quite funny'," a Sky journalist told ninemsn.
The quotes have run extensively, both in Australia and across the world.
The jet crash landed short of the runway at London's Heathrow airport at around 12.42pm (11.42 AEDT), injuring six people and causing delays at the world's busiest airport.
The undercarriage of the Boeing 777 was wrecked with the back end and the engines touching the ground. Passengers poured out of emergency slides while firefighters sprayed safety foam around the jet. One said he felt he had won the "lottery" by escaping unharmed.
Television pictures showed skidmarks carving up the grass ahead of the runway used by Flight BA38 from Beijing with 136 passengers and 16 crew on board. All the injuries were reported as minor.
BBC television quoted the pilot as saying he had lost all power as it was landing and had to glide it in.
A passenger, Fernando Prado, told BBC television by telephone that all the passengers had been evacuated within two or three minutes, adding of his escape: "I won the lottery today."
Six passengers were taken to hospital with minor injuries, said a spokeswoman for the London Ambulance Service"
Hope that helps a little
"An Australian who claimed to be a passenger on board a British Airways flight that crashed at London's Heathrow Airport was a hoaxer, according to the network that originally ran the quotes.
A representative from Sky News in the UK confirmed to ninemsn that the Australian who called himself Jason Johnson was a prankster who decided to have a laugh at the network's expense.
It was amazing we came in very, very fast and once we'd landed we spun 90 degrees," Jason told the network in a phone interview.
"I felt like I was in a washing machine. "There was this major shift to the side and all of us were slung off to the side of where we were sitting."
After Sky ran a live interview and used grabs in a separate story, Jason e-mailed them to admit the call was a prank.
"He admitted it through e-mail. One of our producers called him up and he said, 'I was a bit pissed and thought it might be quite funny'," a Sky journalist told ninemsn.
The quotes have run extensively, both in Australia and across the world.
The jet crash landed short of the runway at London's Heathrow airport at around 12.42pm (11.42 AEDT), injuring six people and causing delays at the world's busiest airport.
The undercarriage of the Boeing 777 was wrecked with the back end and the engines touching the ground. Passengers poured out of emergency slides while firefighters sprayed safety foam around the jet. One said he felt he had won the "lottery" by escaping unharmed.
Television pictures showed skidmarks carving up the grass ahead of the runway used by Flight BA38 from Beijing with 136 passengers and 16 crew on board. All the injuries were reported as minor.
BBC television quoted the pilot as saying he had lost all power as it was landing and had to glide it in.
A passenger, Fernando Prado, told BBC television by telephone that all the passengers had been evacuated within two or three minutes, adding of his escape: "I won the lottery today."
Six passengers were taken to hospital with minor injuries, said a spokeswoman for the London Ambulance Service"
Hope that helps a little
aka Capt PPRuNe
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...and after the last post by 'EmergingCyclogenesis", I think it is time to go to bed and have a rest. 
As mentioned somewhere earlier, there is informed speculation and uninformed speculation. I would trust speculation from any jet pilots who regularly fly in and out of LHR. As for things such as "...the aircraft was flying some base leg approach..." and "...and then finds that the jetstream is particularly strong today, giving rise to significant rainfall and wind over northern europe...", well, I don't need to say any more.
Those of us who know, know. Those who don't, make fools of themselves.
Goodnight.
As mentioned somewhere earlier, there is informed speculation and uninformed speculation. I would trust speculation from any jet pilots who regularly fly in and out of LHR. As for things such as "...the aircraft was flying some base leg approach..." and "...and then finds that the jetstream is particularly strong today, giving rise to significant rainfall and wind over northern europe...", well, I don't need to say any more.
Those of us who know, know. Those who don't, make fools of themselves.
Goodnight.
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Bad month for Boeing, first the QF 744 with AC loss, then the 787 delays and now this... I suspect the pilots had a struggle getting it within the perimiter fence so congrats and thank god it ended in a relatively positive way.
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BA 777 in London
Holy 
!!
Here is the link http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309075
and some pics!!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1318129
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1318128
!!Here is the link http://www.pprune.org/forums/showthread.php?t=309075
and some pics!!
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1318129
http://www.airliners.net/open.file?id=1318128
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In connection with the APU auto start, how is loss of both engines detected by that system?
The APU autostart system detects loss of electrical power to both AC transfer busses. That would occur if both engines failed, as the IDGs and backup generators are all driven by the engines.
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Originally Posted by Capvermell
Oh but they would let them talk to the media about their heroic deeds if it was 100% clear cut that the pilots managed to land the plane without it breaking up through mechanical failure or bird strike etc that was absolutely no fault of their own.
Water in fuel?
Does anybody know what indication the crew would have if the 777's water detector was completely submerged in water, so there was no water/fuel boundary visible?
Does the 777 have jet pumps to emulsify any water in the fuel, as Airbuses do?
The gauges may have been showing a liquid quantity, but was it fuel?
Does the 777 have jet pumps to emulsify any water in the fuel, as Airbuses do?
The gauges may have been showing a liquid quantity, but was it fuel?
Last edited by Mechta; 18th Jan 2008 at 01:06. Reason: typo
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Tell you what has most wound me up today; the absolute GARBAGE spouted by media hacks who clearly know very little about aviation. Some of the comments and commentary on the BBC, and on News 24 in particular, were shockingly inaccurate, sensationalist, and often just pure drivel. Sky were not much better. A few times I found it hard not to scream "SHUT UP YOU FOOLS!" at the screen. I am sure I was not alone in that!
What a contrast: the professionalism and skill of the BA crew vs the sensationalism, incompetence, arrogance and stupidity of the broadcast media.
I think we should push for a new law requiring all news to be reported in the style of "Pathe News" during WW2, with a terribly nice Queen's English-speaking reporter passing on established facts and no speculation or opinion, with some jolly music in the background. What do you think?
I'll get off my soapbox now. And yes, I do feel better for it!
Looking forward to the AAIB report; could be VERY interesting.
What a contrast: the professionalism and skill of the BA crew vs the sensationalism, incompetence, arrogance and stupidity of the broadcast media
.I think we should push for a new law requiring all news to be reported in the style of "Pathe News" during WW2, with a terribly nice Queen's English-speaking reporter passing on established facts and no speculation or opinion, with some jolly music in the background. What do you think?
I'll get off my soapbox now. And yes, I do feel better for it!
Looking forward to the AAIB report; could be VERY interesting.
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Wonder how long it will be until they get 27L open again. Could be a while.
I can imagine there will be some huge delays to and from London in the coming days. Perhaps some very long taxy times and waits for departure. It could make a few scheduling nightmares given they are already very short in most categories on the 744.
Will have to be careful answering any calls from a private number in the coming days.
I can imagine there will be some huge delays to and from London in the coming days. Perhaps some very long taxy times and waits for departure. It could make a few scheduling nightmares given they are already very short in most categories on the 744.
Will have to be careful answering any calls from a private number in the coming days.
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The calls for an end to the speculation on this thread are considerably more tedious than the speculation itself.
It is human nature to seek the answers to all that is unknown. What we have here is a puzzle (albeit a potentially disastrous one) and there is no harm in trying to solve it. However, that doesn't mean the speculation should have no bounds. Where the speculation results in, or implies, blame on BA, the crew, Boeing, the Chinese fuel companies etc without absolute fact, then this must be stopped.
However, such postings have largely been absent on this thread, so lets continue to enjoy solving the puzzle - afterall, even Danny has had a crack (and he didn't state the birds were at fault in doing so!)
It is human nature to seek the answers to all that is unknown. What we have here is a puzzle (albeit a potentially disastrous one) and there is no harm in trying to solve it. However, that doesn't mean the speculation should have no bounds. Where the speculation results in, or implies, blame on BA, the crew, Boeing, the Chinese fuel companies etc without absolute fact, then this must be stopped.
However, such postings have largely been absent on this thread, so lets continue to enjoy solving the puzzle - afterall, even Danny has had a crack (and he didn't state the birds were at fault in doing so!)
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IMHO Ian Shoesmith is not a disgrace. He's a journalist, apparently an honest one who says who he is, doing his job which is to try to find out what happened in this accident. He's always tried to get 'expert' opinion from here and I'm sure by now he's got a very good idea of who's posts are reliable professional information and which ones are twaddle. However, Ian, it's a bit naive to expect that anyone would give you the Captain's phone number but I can't blame you for trying.
All we know is that it was a crash-landing short of the runway, no fire and everyone got out. Everything else is speculation (including from professional pilots) until we know more facts. What is certain is that the cabin crew did their job in getting everyone out and the pilots did their job in managing to put it down largely in one piece. Another professional crew doing an excellent professional job at the end. What happened before that, we'll just have to wait and see. Nice to see WW praising his crew but he is a pilot after all!
All we know is that it was a crash-landing short of the runway, no fire and everyone got out. Everything else is speculation (including from professional pilots) until we know more facts. What is certain is that the cabin crew did their job in getting everyone out and the pilots did their job in managing to put it down largely in one piece. Another professional crew doing an excellent professional job at the end. What happened before that, we'll just have to wait and see. Nice to see WW praising his crew but he is a pilot after all!