BA B777 Incident @ Heathrow (merged)
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What's the point in everyone speculating?!?! And then arguing about it and how unlikely or likely it is that what they say is what happened/didn't happen?!
Why can't everyonel just wait until the initial report by the AAIB comes out?
Everyone on here is just adding to the confusion and rumours which is unneccessary I think, and probably fuelling the media's own varying rumours.
Why can't everyonel just wait until the initial report by the AAIB comes out?
Everyone on here is just adding to the confusion and rumours which is unneccessary I think, and probably fuelling the media's own varying rumours.
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To me, one of those was spinning a lot faster than the other when it ate dirt...
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Vanman,
with reference to your comments hoping that cabincrew did not initiate evacuation I can assure you that in the right circumstances that it is correct for them to do so if.....???? "the aircraft is stopped and the situation deemed catastrophic", eg broken airframe, etc.
As I did emergency training recently in the cabincrew 777 sim (although fly the 747) with cabincrew I assure you this is NOT speculation but fact, and by all accounts the cabincrew did an amazing job as well.
Also from other forums, news feeds etc, comments etc I can also assure all of you that BA pilots are NOT praising themselves as being better at all and having worked in other airlines around the world I know that most of us would have performed equally as well, I gave up on pprune some time ago with the constant undervaluing/flaming of pilots (particularly BA) and hope that this incident underlines why we are paid what we are and the reason (albeit very rare) why we should be valued.
Oh and yes it would seem like all the ground based services performed in an excellent manner as well and I wish to add my thanks to them.
Thanks thats all.....
with reference to your comments hoping that cabincrew did not initiate evacuation I can assure you that in the right circumstances that it is correct for them to do so if.....???? "the aircraft is stopped and the situation deemed catastrophic", eg broken airframe, etc.
As I did emergency training recently in the cabincrew 777 sim (although fly the 747) with cabincrew I assure you this is NOT speculation but fact, and by all accounts the cabincrew did an amazing job as well.
Also from other forums, news feeds etc, comments etc I can also assure all of you that BA pilots are NOT praising themselves as being better at all and having worked in other airlines around the world I know that most of us would have performed equally as well, I gave up on pprune some time ago with the constant undervaluing/flaming of pilots (particularly BA) and hope that this incident underlines why we are paid what we are and the reason (albeit very rare) why we should be valued.
Oh and yes it would seem like all the ground based services performed in an excellent manner as well and I wish to add my thanks to them.
Thanks thats all.....
I appreciate the learning from the experts here on how the B777 systems work and interact.
I also appreciate all who ask relevant question before speculating through more than one link in a causal chain.
Be mindful of reading post crash fan blade damage that you must consider more than what your eye sees in a single photo.
In order to cause significant fan damage due to crash impact you must have both high RPM and significant fan case crushing against the blades.
There are distinct differences to be interpreted between high RPM and low RPM ground impact fan damage as well as distinct differences between ground and an inflight damage of the fan.
I suspect that most people observing these photos would not be able to tell the difference (whether it was inflight or due to ground impact). However I do expect that the answer is already known to those at the scene, so I'll not speculate further without their comments.
I also appreciate all who ask relevant question before speculating through more than one link in a causal chain.
Be mindful of reading post crash fan blade damage that you must consider more than what your eye sees in a single photo.
In order to cause significant fan damage due to crash impact you must have both high RPM and significant fan case crushing against the blades.
There are distinct differences to be interpreted between high RPM and low RPM ground impact fan damage as well as distinct differences between ground and an inflight damage of the fan.
I suspect that most people observing these photos would not be able to tell the difference (whether it was inflight or due to ground impact). However I do expect that the answer is already known to those at the scene, so I'll not speculate further without their comments.
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I can't believe that posters on this thread will slag off the "ignorant media" while tolerating the absolute tripe that is being written on this thread.
Personally I'm quite enjoying the speculation and debate. I'm only PPL holder with ambitions to go commercial, but I'm learning a lot from this thread so I'd like to see it continue.
If you are a 777 pilot, please by all means join the discussion and add your professional opinon. If you don't see the point, then why are you here reading this at all?
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No1 eng certainly was turning on impact, but I would expect far more damage to the fan casing if it was at, or anywhere near G/A power when it got fed LHRs finest turf.
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Already PPRuNe is appearing in Sky News
Crash Pilot 30 Seconds From Disaster
Updated:14:19, Friday January 18, 2008
<H2>The pilot of a BA jet that crash-landed at Heathrow airport had just 30 seconds to save his passengers, Sky sources say.
</H2>
Pilot Peter Burkhill
Captain Peter Burkill only discovered that his Boeing 777 had lost power when he was 500ft above London's rooftops.
He tried to apply more thrust as the plane sank dangerously low on its approach to one of the world's busiest airports.
But the engines failed to respond, leaving him with 30 seconds to decide how to handle the crisis.
Capt Burkill was forced to the land the jet carrying 136 passengers several hundred feet short of the runway
Pilots' union Balpa said Capt Burkill and his first officer John Coward had gone out for "a quiet curry" after the landing and were "embarrassed" by media coverage.
The Professional Pilots' Rumour Network website was also full of compliments from fellow pilots.
"I am only just staring out on the path to a commercial career but it does make me feel incredible proud to be entering a profession with such amazing professionals," HappyFran wrote.
Updated:14:19, Friday January 18, 2008
<H2>The pilot of a BA jet that crash-landed at Heathrow airport had just 30 seconds to save his passengers, Sky sources say.
</H2>
Pilot Peter Burkhill Captain Peter Burkill only discovered that his Boeing 777 had lost power when he was 500ft above London's rooftops.
He tried to apply more thrust as the plane sank dangerously low on its approach to one of the world's busiest airports.
But the engines failed to respond, leaving him with 30 seconds to decide how to handle the crisis.
Capt Burkill was forced to the land the jet carrying 136 passengers several hundred feet short of the runway
Pilots' union Balpa said Capt Burkill and his first officer John Coward had gone out for "a quiet curry" after the landing and were "embarrassed" by media coverage.
The Professional Pilots' Rumour Network website was also full of compliments from fellow pilots.
"I am only just staring out on the path to a commercial career but it does make me feel incredible proud to be entering a profession with such amazing professionals," HappyFran wrote.
Fly Conventional Gear
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If you look really closely at the short clip on Youtube of it coming in you can just make out some sort of trail (it might just be poor quality recording) coming from the left engine. Eye witness Robert Hardman writing in the Daily Mail reports that as the plane came to a halt flames were coming from the port engine which subsequently subsided. Something do with the reported lack of thrust perhaps?
My favorite post so far (back at No.218):
Chronic Snoozer
In the fullness of time the causes will be revealed. If it was a birdstrike, it must have been some flock of birds.
In the meantime it is sobering to think that a modern airliner operated by a first world airline could end up like this.
As a pilot - it reminds us that it can happen anytime, to anyone.
As a pax - reinforces the importance of listening to the safety announcements and reading the emergency card in your seatback pocket.
N1, your post No.277, I'm amazed (but not surprised) you went to the trouble of getting a new name for that one.
Chronic Snoozer
In the fullness of time the causes will be revealed. If it was a birdstrike, it must have been some flock of birds.
In the meantime it is sobering to think that a modern airliner operated by a first world airline could end up like this.
As a pilot - it reminds us that it can happen anytime, to anyone.
As a pax - reinforces the importance of listening to the safety announcements and reading the emergency card in your seatback pocket.
N1, your post No.277, I'm amazed (but not surprised) you went to the trouble of getting a new name for that one.
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I hope they had a skinfull as well.
I would certainly be in need of a few after that day at work.
As for speculation.........nothing wrong with it, we read through the dross. I of course wouldn't want to speculate. I certainly have my thoughts on the matter....something to do with aliens.
I would certainly be in need of a few after that day at work.
As for speculation.........nothing wrong with it, we read through the dross. I of course wouldn't want to speculate. I certainly have my thoughts on the matter....something to do with aliens.
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thought you might like this comment from the times website -
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...SS&attr=797084
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/new...SS&attr=797084
ITs fortunate everyone was unhurt. THe boeing 777 is the safest aircraft in the aviation bussiness. IT was lucky that it was the boeing 777 that this happened to, if it had happened to any other aircraft then it would of been alot worse. If the pilot had not landed on the grass it could of been much more catastrophic due to the increased sink rate. A dual engine failure is extremely unusual. Seeing as this was a british airliner serviced in england it may of been possible that the service technicians had not been strictly following boeings exact maintainence requirements and may of adapted there own methods with boeing reccomendations. After all the boeing 777 was designed entirely on computers and was manafactured in america. In the united kingdom people in mechanical occupations generally seem to make quite alot of mistakes. Failure is not an option in aviation servicing and technicians. I've noticed that there are quite alot of bodgers and slackers in the united kingdom.
mike, london,
mike, london,
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As usual there is so much speculation when the facts are still to come in.
Typically, the ‘experts’ are deriding the PPLs etc for lack of knowledge yet go on themselves to speculate that the flight crew did a brilliant job to enable people to walk away (relatively) unharmed.
How is that in itself not speculation? Do we know it was not crew error? (I seriously doubt it was, but none of us know).
As for the ‘heroics’ of the flight crew, if (speculation now it is as it seems and was a major loss of power (however that was brought about) at a very late stage of the approach, what exactly dud the crew do that was heroic? It seems (more speculation, based on lack of notice to ATC and to the Cabin Crew) that this was a last minute event, in which case the A/C would have been stable beforehand. What exactly, apart from being very frightened, could the flight crew have done with a dead stick and only seconds to touch down?
Everyone walked away, which could have been fortune more than skill; huge kudos to the Cabin Crew who it seems were as much in the dark as the passengers and ATC, yet managed to very quickly and safely evacuate the aircraft. Considering that they seem to have had no warning until the aircraft ploughed in, they did exceptionally well.
Typically, the ‘experts’ are deriding the PPLs etc for lack of knowledge yet go on themselves to speculate that the flight crew did a brilliant job to enable people to walk away (relatively) unharmed.
How is that in itself not speculation? Do we know it was not crew error? (I seriously doubt it was, but none of us know).
As for the ‘heroics’ of the flight crew, if (speculation now it is as it seems and was a major loss of power (however that was brought about) at a very late stage of the approach, what exactly dud the crew do that was heroic? It seems (more speculation, based on lack of notice to ATC and to the Cabin Crew) that this was a last minute event, in which case the A/C would have been stable beforehand. What exactly, apart from being very frightened, could the flight crew have done with a dead stick and only seconds to touch down?
Everyone walked away, which could have been fortune more than skill; huge kudos to the Cabin Crew who it seems were as much in the dark as the passengers and ATC, yet managed to very quickly and safely evacuate the aircraft. Considering that they seem to have had no warning until the aircraft ploughed in, they did exceptionally well.
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Have to agree, You Gimbold.
Plane lands short
Few minor injuries
PPRuNE GOES INTO MELT-DOWN!!!!
Danny, we need more thrust - it's easier to get on the horn into O'Hare than to penetrate the server this morning!
Plane lands short
Few minor injuries
PPRuNE GOES INTO MELT-DOWN!!!!
Danny, we need more thrust - it's easier to get on the horn into O'Hare than to penetrate the server this morning!
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Recovering the airframe question.
A simple question: given a Boeing 777 that made a 'good' landing, but not actually a 'great' landing, how is the aircraft removed from the threshold of 27L?. Will it be broken up in situ, or are there enormous cranes and trucks for such eventualities?
Just curious as to how you deal with this.
Just curious as to how you deal with this.
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"I've heard and read some wonderful speculation this afternoon. Who are these "experts" that keep getting drafted in? I worry that I may be missing out on a profitable niche as a self-appointed expert in something."
Reminds me of the Thames Whale incident last year, when Sky bought their expert into the studio - a carp fisherman!
Reminds me of the Thames Whale incident last year, when Sky bought their expert into the studio - a carp fisherman!
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Anyone wondered who the first officers were on the BA038? The captain has received a lot of praise in the media, but there has been no mention of the other 2 pilots, each of whom is as likely as the captain to have been handling the jet at the time. So far I've not even heard their names mentioned... Just a thought...
Daily Mail Now Saying......
The focus of the investigation into the cause of the Heathrow crash turned today to the aeroplane's electrics after it was revealed that Boeing aircraft have a history of onboard fires causing power failure.
"Boeing 777s have been involved in at least 12 serious incidents when electrical systems have overheated, it has been reported.
On four occassions "major damage" was caused to power panels on at least four occassions, it has been reported.
......It emerged today that the Department for Transport's Air Accidents Investigation Branch, which is carrying out the inquiry, warned about electrical overheating on the 777 in a report published last April.
It followed an accident in February when a pilot on a United Airlines 777 abandoned a take-off after it lost one of its main power control units — known as a bus. "
"Boeing 777s have been involved in at least 12 serious incidents when electrical systems have overheated, it has been reported.
On four occassions "major damage" was caused to power panels on at least four occassions, it has been reported.
......It emerged today that the Department for Transport's Air Accidents Investigation Branch, which is carrying out the inquiry, warned about electrical overheating on the 777 in a report published last April.
It followed an accident in February when a pilot on a United Airlines 777 abandoned a take-off after it lost one of its main power control units — known as a bus. "
Im surprised this incident wasnt referred to before with regard to the BA777.
It may be a wider problem, i wonder if grounding of the fleet world-wide will occur?
Be thankful it was on short final and not out over the Atlantic. If the UAL incident had occurred at rotate from Heathrow..well, lets not go there.
Well done to the Capatin and crew.
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Captain Peter Burkill on Sky
Captain Peter Burkill is due to be live on Sky at 16:00 UK time. (According to scrolling headsines banner.)
A clear indication that the powers that be and BA are confident they have a good idea of the cause and that the pilots and crew did a demonstrably good job.
A clear indication that the powers that be and BA are confident they have a good idea of the cause and that the pilots and crew did a demonstrably good job.
Last edited by Memetic; 18th Jan 2008 at 14:51. Reason: typo.
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'Quiet Curry' thats one you will never forget also a great way to mask the sweaty patches :-)
Any time now the media will start finding crazy links as to why it happened....
"On an Al Jazeera website today a reporter has witnessed a video of Alqieda leaders confirming they have infact invented a weather machine, osama himself created microbursts and is claiming the incident as his. They went on to say that with this new device of terror we will soak the infadels until they can take no more. The US responded quickly with a stern message...yes we have a weather making machine of our own, 150 megatons soon to come your way...better get that suncream out."
Any time now the media will start finding crazy links as to why it happened....
"On an Al Jazeera website today a reporter has witnessed a video of Alqieda leaders confirming they have infact invented a weather machine, osama himself created microbursts and is claiming the incident as his. They went on to say that with this new device of terror we will soak the infadels until they can take no more. The US responded quickly with a stern message...yes we have a weather making machine of our own, 150 megatons soon to come your way...better get that suncream out."