ACAS 10 bulletin, new R/T
Only half a speed-brake
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New TCAS R/T, Eurocontrol Bulletin #10
Dear all,
just a quick reminder that a new Eurocontrol ACAS bulletin have been published: http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/galle...tins-BUL10.pdf
Apart from yet again a great wealth of useful operational information, new R/T procedures are highlighted. Procedures implemented in PANS-ATM from 22nd NOV 07.
Thank you John Law and your team, for several years already, the ACAS bulletins have been and continue to be a great aid.
FD (the un-real)
just a quick reminder that a new Eurocontrol ACAS bulletin have been published: http://www.eurocontrol.int/msa/galle...tins-BUL10.pdf
Apart from yet again a great wealth of useful operational information, new R/T procedures are highlighted. Procedures implemented in PANS-ATM from 22nd NOV 07.
Thank you John Law and your team, for several years already, the ACAS bulletins have been and continue to be a great aid.
FD (the un-real)
Last edited by FlightDetent; 16th Jan 2008 at 07:00.
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This brief looks like total gobeldigook! Whats with the table - thats not the standard responce....and the illustrations!?
I sincerely hope my company produce something clearer.
I sincerely hope my company produce something clearer.
Only half a speed-brake
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"TCAS - AR - EY"
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All that for:
"TCAS RA", "Clear of conflict, returning to" & "Clear of conflict".
It is a piece of junk information, the way it's set up.
I think that it's easier to say "TCAS Climb" or "Tcas descend", as that is what you hear the system announcing.
"TCAS RA", "Clear of conflict, returning to" & "Clear of conflict".
It is a piece of junk information, the way it's set up.
I think that it's easier to say "TCAS Climb" or "Tcas descend", as that is what you hear the system announcing.
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Me,
I think I will fly the aircraft first. Avoid the RA and then try and work out whose airspace I am in and what I am meant to say. Whatever I say I will probably get it wrong.
My rules.
1. Keep it safe
2. Keep it simple
At the end of the day, what is more important. There are too many documents with too many conflicts.
I think I will fly the aircraft first. Avoid the RA and then try and work out whose airspace I am in and what I am meant to say. Whatever I say I will probably get it wrong.
My rules.
1. Keep it safe
2. Keep it simple
At the end of the day, what is more important. There are too many documents with too many conflicts.
Only half a speed-brake
Thread Starter
80% of RAs are nuisance 1000 ft level-off situations, what are you going to say on R/T when "adjust V/S, adjust" is issued? TCAS climb? TCAS descent?
FD.
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I will not accept procedural changes through "hearsay" on the net, only if made available through my company or authorities and adressed directly at me.
"Well, judge, read it on the web somewhere..."
Nic
"Well, judge, read it on the web somewhere..."
Nic
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FlightDetent,
there are a couple of things you said which I would like to query.
I take it you are talking about Überlingen.
I think if you read the accident report, you will find that he was following procedures published in the flight manual of the aircraft he was flying. There were lots of applicable "published procedures", including those in the airplane flight manual, the regulations of the airspace in which he was flying, ICAO, and Eurocontrol advisory documents, and they were all different.
Well, this is legally just not right. The owner of the airspace in which you are flying defines the procedures. That's the document. And it changes every time you cross national boundaries. It is wishful thinking to imagine that all the countries in the world now agree on and have implemented in their air traffic regulations *exactly one* TCAS procedure, don't you think?
PBL
there are a couple of things you said which I would like to query.
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
Last time we saw a pilot intentionally avoid published procedures, the death toll was 167, right?
I think if you read the accident report, you will find that he was following procedures published in the flight manual of the aircraft he was flying. There were lots of applicable "published procedures", including those in the airplane flight manual, the regulations of the airspace in which he was flying, ICAO, and Eurocontrol advisory documents, and they were all different.
Originally Posted by FlightDetent
There's only one document
PBL
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Yours, FD (the un-real)
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To me the new procedures make sense. HOWEVER, for FD and others, as said above, all pilots MUST adhere to published company procedures and cannot 'change' procedures on the basis of an internet post.
I trust that FD has taken appropriate steps to ensure that the question of when it is implemented in the UK and by individual airlines is resolved?
Until then, we carry on as per SOPs. I will bring this to the attention of my company. Thank you for the post, FD.
Does anyone know HOW this sort of thing is resolved - with an 'effective date' in November and not yet in place?
I trust that FD has taken appropriate steps to ensure that the question of when it is implemented in the UK and by individual airlines is resolved?
Until then, we carry on as per SOPs. I will bring this to the attention of my company. Thank you for the post, FD.
Does anyone know HOW this sort of thing is resolved - with an 'effective date' in November and not yet in place?
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No dispute with Uberlingen, I share your views. In fact I am talking about Conhongas - pilots's decision not to implement available procedures.
So it was and the industry have learned eversince. I only attempt to show that another step was made and is a worldwide standard.
Could not agree more. I am ready to learn about airspaces/countries which decided not to adopt latest PANS-ATM chages, be it via web hearsay (and check with official sources if it is so). Until then, it is my responsibility as a pilot is to follow published procedures invented by people far more clever than me.
Groucho: My company would not advise me about recent changes in Doc 4444. They did show me €control ACAS bulletin, however. My SOPs which I must and will follow do not prescribe TCAS phraseologies, but they require me to adopt ICAO standards unless stated otherwise. There is a new standard in place, and I only attempt to bring it into the view of fellow pilots who may find themselves in the same position as I am.
At last, I am afraid
that the "new" procedure have been in place for 2 months and it is our responsibility to act accordingly.
ICAO, and Eurocontrol advisory documents, and they were all different.
Well, this is legally just not right. The owner of the airspace in which you are flying defines the procedures. That's the document. And it changes every time you cross national boundaries. It is wishful thinking to imagine that all the countries in the world now agree on and have implemented in their air traffic regulations *exactly one* TCAS procedure, don't you think?
Groucho: My company would not advise me about recent changes in Doc 4444. They did show me €control ACAS bulletin, however. My SOPs which I must and will follow do not prescribe TCAS phraseologies, but they require me to adopt ICAO standards unless stated otherwise. There is a new standard in place, and I only attempt to bring it into the view of fellow pilots who may find themselves in the same position as I am.
At last, I am afraid
that the "new" procedure have been in place for 2 months and it is our responsibility to act accordingly.
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There's only one document, and the R/T has been greatly simplified. Win-win situation.
I wish I could agree, but I fly well outside just Europe. We have had standard R/T phases which have been around since I started flying 34 years ago. Unfortunatley some countries choice to ignore them. I once represented the UK at the Roselawn Phase 3 Icing Conference in Washington and raised some points directly with the FAA and got absolutley nowhere. I recently received in the post a document from the UK CAA on R/T procedures as applied to the UK. Am I waiting for the next 100 or so similar documents to arrive from every country I overfly or visit? Yes I am an old cynic. Too many people sitting in offices pushing pieces of paper around trying to change everything. If change makes flying safer, I will do my best to follow them.
I stick to my policies......
Keep it Safe
Keep it Simple
I wish I could agree, but I fly well outside just Europe. We have had standard R/T phases which have been around since I started flying 34 years ago. Unfortunatley some countries choice to ignore them. I once represented the UK at the Roselawn Phase 3 Icing Conference in Washington and raised some points directly with the FAA and got absolutley nowhere. I recently received in the post a document from the UK CAA on R/T procedures as applied to the UK. Am I waiting for the next 100 or so similar documents to arrive from every country I overfly or visit? Yes I am an old cynic. Too many people sitting in offices pushing pieces of paper around trying to change everything. If change makes flying safer, I will do my best to follow them.
I stick to my policies......
Keep it Safe
Keep it Simple